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Capping the hours worked in a week
Topic Started: Oct 25 2004, 02:33 AM (122 Views)
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

Not that I usually put to much faith in french ideals, but their attempts at legislating for a capped working week may have some merit.

I have included an article from a french legal site explaining the legislation, and then an article from the BBC on its affect in France.

While it might not be having the effect they intended in france, the ideal behind it may have some merit. Could a similar type of legislation work / be beneficial in your country?. It may be unworkable in the private sector, but what about the public sector. Or a system where hours worked over a specific limit incur an extra financial reimbursement, yes I know thats usually called overtime, but not everyone gets paid overtime.

Now before all you Americans start jumpimg up and down about the state impeaching on your rights, yes we can predict how you will all feel on this issue, thats a given. This is mainly a 'what if' scenario, or are there any merits to this idea thread. You really dont need to tell us about your rights.



So, some things to think about, it doesnt have to be the french model, just some type of legislation that tries to limit the working week better:

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* Would such laws have a positive or negative effect on employment?

* Would consumer spending increase if people spent less time at work?

* Would less work hours mean less stress, and therefore less of a burden on the healthcare system?

* Are there any parts that would be workable?

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http://www.triplet.com/50-10_employment/50-20_workingtime.asp
 

French Law: The Standard French Working Week

The standard French working week is 35 hours, having been reduced from 39 hours. The statutory provisions are set out in articles L.212-1 et seq. of the French Employment Code.

The 35-hour week came into effect, on 1 January 2000, for businesses with more than 20 employees and on 1 January 2002, for businesses with 20 employees or less. This legislation was consistently "watered down" in 2003: it is now possible for companies to keep employees' working time up to 39 hours (or more) per week, for a negotiable extra cost.

Employees may not waive their rights under the statutory provisions by contract. However, very senior management executives within a company may be exempted from all of the restrictions on working time, pursuant to article L.212-15-1 of the Employment Code.

The manner in which working time is calculated is not necessarily locked into the time-frame of the working week. Time measurement may be based on days per year or hours per month, as well as hours per week.

Nevertheless, subject to the exception concerning senior management executives, there are statutory limitations, which will apply whatever the basis for calculating working time:

    - there is a statutory requirement for an interrupted period of one day's rest per week, which in principle should be on a Sunday;

- an employee must have, in principle, a minimum of 11 hours' consecutive rest per day;

- there is in principle a limit of 48 hours per week, and even in exceptional circumstances, working time may not exceed 60 hours per week. Working time may not exceed an average of 44 hours per week for a period of 12 consecutive weeks.


Within these parameters, the range of options open to an employer will depend on the needs of the given business activity and in particular on the extent to which the collective bargaining agreement contains provisions governing working time. The reduction in working time does not necessarily have to be set at a strict 35-hour week. It could, for instance, entail working a 39-hour week, but with rest days; or working a given number of hours per month with or without rest days. An employer may also opt for compensating additional work hours in money rather than rest days. The pay rate for overtime work hours is left to collective bargaining, but has to exceed the regular pay rate by 10% at least. An employee may not work more than 180 extra hours per year in the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Executives other than senior management executives as well as itinerant employees may be subject to particular rules regarding working time. Notably, if there is a collective bargaining agreement or an agreement between employer and unions, it may be possible to put in place annualised working time, which would be calculated in days per year. The statutory maximum would be 217 days per year.


but also...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3911009.stm
 

French bosses slam 35-hour week
Workers enjoy longer holidays but face restrictions on overtime
Many French bosses think the compulsory 35-hour week is having an adverse effect on the country's economy, according to new research.

Of 1,000 heads of small firms polled by Ifop, 93% said they would like to see restrictions on staff work hours eased.

The 1999 law was intended to reduce France's high unemployment rate.

The survey's publication coincides with a staff vote at a Robert Bosch car parts factory where workers chose longer hours in order to save jobs.

The majority of the 820 workers at the Bosch factory in Venissieux, near Lyon, said they would rather work 36 hours without any financial compensation for the extra hour than see their plant relocated to the Czech Republic.

Debate

They also accepted a three-year pay freeze.

According to the company, the vote on Monday has given the factory a new lease of life.


[The vote at Venissieux] must not in any case be applied to other Bosch plants in France
Jacques Le Bars, CFE-CGC union

"We don't plan to apply this measure to other sites in France," a spokesman told the French newspaper Les Echos.

"This accord is not a ... reference but a specific response to a particular situation."

France's 35-hour working week is becoming a hotly-contested political issue.

French finance minister Nicolas Sarkozy said last month that the short working week was putting a huge strain on the nation's economy.

Sarkozy has spoken against the 35-hour week

He said the policy directly costs the French Government and firms 16bn euros (£10.6bn; $19bn) a year.

By restricting companies, he said the rule had left the French economy far less flexible than its competitors.

But some trade unions disagree.

While some union members backed the Bosch plant's decision on the grounds that it saved jobs, others rejected it, saying the move could spell the beginning of the end of the 35-hour week introduced by the socialist ex-prime minister Lionel Jospin.

"When the school year starts in September, we are going to organise union actions to win back our rights," CGT union official Serge Trucello told Reuters news agency.


UNEMPLOYMENT WORLDWIDE
Germany 9.8%
France 9.4%
Canada 7.2%
United States 5.6%
UK 4.8%
Japan 4.6%

"It (the vote at Venissieux) must not in any case be applied to other Bosch plants in France," said leader of the CFE-CGC union Jacques Le Bars.

Many firms have moved their operations from Western Europe to Eastern Europe, where labour costs are cheaper.

In Germany, employees at two plants belonging to the engineering giant Siemens agreed to work 40 hours instead of 35, without extra pay, to prevent their jobs being relocated in Hungary.

Unions are presently locked in discussions with management at German car-maker DaimlerChrysler over longer working hours.

France's President Jacques Chirac has said the working time law should be relaxed, but must ultimately remain in force.

It is likely that any attempt to overturn the law would be met by huge protests.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Put simply, you would see an increase in jobs being exported overseas. Business owners would find the idea of an enforced work week repugnant and would go to a country where they can work people 12 hours a day.

Rights aside, you must remember that the only thing that keeps industries in Western nations is the quality of our work. The more labor laws that you tack onto businesses, the less that quality work means to the business owners. Eventually, the quantity and cheapness of 3rd world workers overcomes the quality work and ergo, you have businesses moving there.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Not a bad idea - just two things will stop it from happening.

Employers will be reluctant to take on more workers and train them in order to ensure 24/7 365d/y processes are covered properly by blue and white collar workers - it is more expensive to employ more workers than to pay the existing workers overtime to cover staff shortages or increased production hours / utilitisation.

The Employees will be reluctant to give up paid overtime for working extra hours, weekends, holidays and on rostered days off. It is these overtime and unsociable hours payments that make jobs that would otherwize be poorly paid so attractive, by increasing the earning ability of those workers who are paid for overtime 2 or 3 or more times what they would get if they worked a 5 day week (8 hr/d) only. These workers are used to earning such money and would find adjusting to a greatly reduced take home pay difficult - even impossible.

BHP tried this stunt on professional employees (like myself in 1994) and essentially asked all staff to accept new working conditions where overtime wasn't going to be paid unless there were exceptional circumstances (a unreasonable overtime burden , and when these conditions kicked in was not spelled out - and left at the discretion of the group / unit / team menagers) Needless to say - I refused to accept the changed working conditions as my job involved frequent call-ins often at unsociable hours, weekend work, frequent overtime to cover the jobs requirements (and I stood to loose 50% of my earning capability at least , I already limited the amount of overtime I claimed payment for - often working flexitime instead - if it suited my family and social life, and I never claimed payment anything for less than 2 hours overtime - that's just professionalism.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
doctortobe
Oct 25 2004, 06:26 AM
Put simply, you would see an increase in jobs being exported overseas. Business owners would find the idea of an enforced work week repugnant and would go to a country where they can work people 12 hours a day.


Or even 8 hours a day!
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gvok
Unregistered

For industrial jobs sure. Some jobs cannot be exported such as the service industry and businesses which serve the local economy.
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