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Russians being terrorized?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2004, 10:11 PM (242 Views)
Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I don't know if y'all have heard, but there was an explosion in a Russian subway earlier today, and this evening two aircraft leaving Domodedovo (one of Moscow's airports) blew up within three minutes of each other.

Is this the Chechens? Is this al Queda?
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Personal Response

I'd heard about the planes, but not the subway. I would bet on the Chechens being most likely responsible.

End of Personal Response
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CV6 Enterprise
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Captain
Quote:
 
Is this the Chechens? Is this al Queda?


I really wouldn't be suprised if they were working together.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Also two Russian internal passenger liners have been brought down within minutes of each other.

Hijack feared as jets crash in Russia (ABC NEWS)
Quote:
 
Two Russian passenger planes carrying more than 80 people have crashed almost simultaneously, prompting concerns of a possible terrorist attack.

The Interfax news agency quotes a government source as saying one of the planes sent a hijack alarm before crashing near the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don.

The planes disappeared within minutes of each other and President Vladimir Putin ordered the FSB security service to investigate the incidents, something it would do only under suspicious circumstances.

An aviation source told Interfax that given both planes took off from one airport and disappeared from radars around the same time, "one could not exclude a terrorist act".

Officials say rescuers have found the flight recorders from both planes.

Witnesses on the ground reported seeing an explosion on board the second plane just before it crashed near Tula, 150 kilometres south of Moscow.

"Around 11pm, give or take five minutes, there was this strange noise in the sky, then this torn-up book fell onto our garage," a local man told NTV television, holding up a book with tattered pages.

Local news agencies reported that security was tightened at all the country's airports after the incidents.

The unnamed aviation source told Interfax that FSB and police experts were working at Domodedovo airport - where both planes took off - to see whether all passengers had undergone proper security checks.

No survivors

The plane which crashed near Tula was a Tu-134 airliner with 35 passengers and seven to nine crew on board, Russian news agencies quoted Volga-Aviaexpress, which owned the plane, as saying.

The company said the plane was in good shape and its passengers had undergone all necessary security checks.

An Emergency Ministry spokeswoman said there were no survivors since it fell from 10,000 metres. Up to 500 rescue workers and police were at the scene, officials said.

Just three minutes after the Tu-134 crashed, air traffic controllers lost contact with the other passenger plane, a Tu-154 bound for the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

Its wreckage was not found until Wednesday morning, as the search was disrupted by heavy rain.

Interfax quoted major Russian air carrier Sibir, the owner of the plane, as saying 46 people, including eight crew, were on board the plane, which has been in operation since 1982.

Russian news agencies quoted officials as saying no foreigners were on either plane.

The incidents come just days before a presidential election in Chechnya, where Moscow has been battling separatist rebels for a decade. The rebels launched a major raid in the local capital, Grozny, last week and have promised more attacks.



what BBC reported :
Double air disaster hits Russia

Quote:
 
Two Russian airliners carrying 89 passengers and crew crashed within minutes of each other after flying out of the same Moscow airport.
Eyewitnesses at one scene said they heard a plane roaring overhead followed by "an explosion like thunder."

Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the state security services, the FSB, to launch an investigation.

An FSB spokesman said searches had revealed no signs of terrorism but sabotage had not been ruled out.

There was speculation Chechen rebels were behind the attack, ahead of presidential elections in the republic on Sunday - but this has been denied by rebel leaders.


A spokesman from Moscow's Domodedovo airport said no foreigners were on either passenger list.

Click here to see more about the two Tupolev planes
The two planes flew out of the airport within 40 minutes of each other on Tuesday evening.

They got into trouble almost simultaneously at about 2300 local time (1900GMT).

Explosion

Wreckage from the first plane, a Tu-134 bound for Volgograd, was found near the village of Buchalki, in the Tula region, about 200km (125 miles) from Moscow.

"First there was the sound of roaring, as if the plane was flying very low, then came an explosion, like thunder, followed by two more blasts after a couple of seconds. And that was it," said eyewitness Yevgeny Chorkin.

An official later said all 43 passengers, including nine crew, had been killed.

The small Volga-Aviaexpress airline, which owned the plane, said all necessary security checks had been completed, and it was being piloted by the firm's director, Yury Baichkin.

The second plane, a Tu-154 heading for the Black Sea resort of Sochi, disappeared from the radar at around the same time.

Bad weather hampered the search for wreckage, which was found about nine hours after the plane's disappearance near the southern Russian town of Rostov-on-Don, some 1,000 km (600 miles) south of Moscow.

A spokesman for the plane's owners, Russian air company Sibir, said they received an "automatically generated telegram from the Sochi air control centre that the plane had been hijacked".

But Russia's Interfax news agency later quoted an unnamed law enforcement source as saying it had been a distress alert.

Terrorism fear

President Putin, currently on holiday in Sochi, ordered the FSB to investigate the crashes.

FSB investigations are normally held only when an accident occurs in suspicious circumstances, a security source told Reuters news agency.

"According to a preliminary conclusion made by the investigation teams which are working at the sites of the crashes, no signs of terrorist acts or explosions have been found," FSB spokesman, Sergey Ignatchenko, told Itar-Tass news agency.

"Several theories are being considered, the main one is illegal interference into the work of civil aviation."

Security has been tightened at Russian airports.

When told of the two crashes, Russia's UN ambassador, Andrey Denisov, said: "Now we have to see if there's terrorism," reported the Associated Press news agency.

One aviation source quoted by Interfax said: "The fact that both planes took off from one airport and disappeared from radars around the same time can show it was a planned action."

There were fears militants linked to a bloody uprising in the southern republic of Chechnya may be behind the crashes.

Correspondents say Chechen rebels had threatened to disrupt elections in Chechnya to replace President Akhmad Kadyrov, who was killed by a rebel bomb in May.


But Akhmed Zakayev, spokesman for the Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, ruled out any involvement.

"Maskhadov is not linked to this in any way," he reportedly told Moscow Echo radio.

Posted Image
Quote:
 
1. Domodedovo Airport
1735: A Sibir Airlines Tu-134 bound for Volgograd departs
1815: A Volga-Aviaexpress Tu-154 leaves for Sochi
1856: Contact lost with Tu-154
1859: Contact lost with Tu-134
2. Tula region
Wreckage from Tu-134 found near the village of Buchalki soon after contact is lost
3. Rostov-on-Don
0400 (approx): Wreckage from Tu-154 found
(All times in GMT)

Posted Image
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Time to make a couple thousand more craters in Chechnya.

When are they going to turn that area into a parking lot?
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Ngagh
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Huh?
It would be plausable that Al Queda and Chechnyan rebels are working together. There have been ties in the past.

Doc: If they did, we whole international comunity would nag about all the innocents that were killed in the process.
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

Ngagh
Aug 25 2004, 01:08 PM
It would be plausable that Al Queda and Chechnyan rebels are working together. There have been ties in the past.

Doc: If they did, we whole international comunity would nag about all the innocents that were killed in the process.

First sentence: Ties?, there both funded by the Saudis

Second: Russia wouldnt care
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Ngagh
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Huh?
captain_proton_au
Aug 25 2004, 02:18 PM
Second: Russia wouldnt care

Then why hasn't Russia nuked the hell out of Chechnya?
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ds9074
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Admiral
A careful and moderate response is required. It is not wise to take hasty decisions when things like this happen. They need to be investigated properly. The USA didnt turn Afganistan into a parking lot or nuke the hell out of Saudi after 9/11, why should Russia do so to Chechnya?
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Ngagh
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Huh?
^^^^Because Russia is at war with the Chechnyan rebels, bombing there base would be them just responding to an attack. America wasn't at war with a country, they were at war with an organisation with no face.
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cptjeff
Captain of the Enterprise-J
As they seeming ly are now. i suspect terorism too, but we don't know yet. patience is the key.

And does anyone know if they have black boxes abaord russan airliners? Data from those would be extremly valuble in the investigation.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Nuking Chechnya ? Are you crazy ?

1) what's the point ?
2) the rest of the world would never tolerate such a war crime.
3) not all Chechnyian's are rebels or even care about their cause - so exterminating all Chechnyians and turning Chechnya into a radioactive parking lot would be worst than what Hitler and his henchmen did in WWII.
4) it has not been proven that the Chechnyian had anything to do with these planes crashing.

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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
I'm just saying that Chechnya never seemed to be interested in attacking Russia when they knew that the Red Army would have no qualms turning them all into homeless refugees. Could it be that the ability to militarily oppose terrorism in fact helps defeat terrorism?
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
cptjeff
Aug 25 2004, 06:14 PM
As they seeming ly are now. i suspect terorism too, but we don't know yet. patience is the key.

And does anyone know if they have black boxes abaord russan airliners? Data from those would be extremly valuble in the investigation.

Yes, the Tupolev's have two black boxes (actually, they are white with day-glo orange stripes painted on them) per plane, just like other airliners.

The Russians claimed to have retrieved the black boxes from both airliners at a news conference this morning.
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desainte
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Pres Putin seems to take a more measured and less reactionary response to acts like these. If it can be proved that the Chechen rebels carried out these cowardly attacks, then he will respond with due force - as he did during the theatre hostage crisis in Moscow. A lot of people I know assumed there would be months of negotiation to get the hostages released - but that's not the Russian way.

As for the Al Qaeda link - this is probable since the Chechen rebels seem to have a large number of islamic fundamentalists in their ranks. It seems that just about every country in the world seems to have problems with these fanatics at the moment.

Al Qaeda hates the West in general and the US specifically, while Russia is having no small amount of trouble. There is even a problem in China's northern provinces with islamic insurgents (can't remember which provinces).

Are these Islamic fanatics the communist and maoist insurgents of the new millennium?

Thoughts
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