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Will this be Kerry's big miscalculation?
Topic Started: Aug 23 2004, 05:21 PM (285 Views)
Hoss
Member Avatar
Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Kerry has, for whatever reason, decided to base his Presidential camplaign on his Vietnam service record. Will this be the decision that dooms Kerry, his big mistake or miscalculation? That is the fact and the question I ask each of you about the fact.

Now, onto my opinions and speculation (hee hee).
Groups have attacked Bush for his service record during the Vietnam war. Probably some of the groups that are similar to the SBVFT group that Kerry is all upset about now who were, at the time, doing Kerry's dirty work. My speculation is that Kerry, mistakenly seeing this as Bush's biggest weakness, ran with this battle plan of attacking Bush's National Guard record during the Vietnam war while touting his own record during that time.

Despite the fact that the Democratic Party has long been the party screaming and yelling about how terrible Vietnam was and we should be ashamed of it, he made it the focal point and theme of his entire convention, from all the speakers slobbering of his record to his goofy salute and reporting for duty remark. He repeatedly makes statements about him being the one that went to Vietnam.

He choses not to engage President Bush on the issues as a primary campaign strategy. He chooses not to criticize President Bush on his record as President as his primary campaign strategy. He choses to have his surrogates accuse Bush of AWOL and draft dodging while he publicly toots his own horn ad nausium about his questionable service in Vietnam.

So, this all blows up in his face causing him far more damage than he incurred getting his purple hearts. :lol: He has thrown gasoline on the fire by spending all of his time responding to the SBVFT smear campaign and book. He has even called for the publisher to remove the books from the shelves (let's have a good ol' fashion book-burning everyone :lol: ). He wants Bush to condemn and call for an end to these adds after all the mileage he got out of Michael Moore, moveon and the other attack adds. Because of this, the Vietnam story and alegations of Kerry's dishonesty are front page of every news paper and leads off every news forecast. Ka-boom. He whines about the lack of focus on the issues now, which is what he wanted to begin with. :lol:

All of this is costing him veteran support when he was planning on stealing Bush support by touting his war record. :lol:

Quote:
 
"When you're basically running on your biography and there are ongoing attacks that are undermining the credibility of your biography, you have a really big problem," one Democrat close to the Kerry campaign, who asked not to be named, told The New York Times.


This could be Kerry's version of Mondale's "I will raise your taxes". All of this in my opinion, of course.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I already see the campaign imploding. All the focus has been on Kerry's filing the complaint.

I'm getting a vision... it is a vision of an empty suit...
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
If only Dean had not went "YYYeeeaaaooohhhhhhhgggg!!!!" :lol:

While we explore the Dems failure to get the best guy who can win, can I ask all of you this? What is wrong with Dick Gephart? I believe he has tried again and again in past primaries to no avail. Is it that he can't raise the $$$$?
Whats wrong with him?

With all the hate out there for Bush, the Dems could slide in with the right guy. Makes me wonder why Al Gore opted out in advance and Hillary would not take the bait either. In private they agree with Bush's actions in Iraq, in fact their votes supported it. A political hog-tie. Kerry is a sacraficial lamb heading for the political slaughter. The Dems knew it.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Personal Response

While I expected Kerry to mention Vietnam in his acceptance speech, I was astounded by the percentage of the speech spent on it.

Vietnam was an incredibly divisive time. So much so that, I personally couldn't watch programs like "The Wonder Years", "Tour of Duty" or the one with Dana Delaney although they were on the air years later. 9/11 was the only public moment in my life more distressful...

It's hard to remember those years, but if you were old enough to remember them, you can also remember John Kerry from those years. Agree or disagree with him, but you would remember him.

Supposedly his premise for doing so was that he went to Vietnam, but Bush didn't. What's dangerous is that Bush DID go into the National Guard. I don't know about others, but the Guard units are HUGE where I live and they all think they are serving their country. Trying to condemn Bush without also alienating them is tricky at best.

So, by the emphasis he placed on his Vietnam service, he caused people to remember a time they don't particulary want to remember in order to make a point about Bush that may cause to alienate the veterans he is seeking for support ... and those were the "plus" reasons for making the choice that he did.

He has also raised the "negative" reasons to the public eye - his anti-war efforts.

It seems to me that he made a poor gamble when he could have had a fairly safe campaign running on his Senate record.

End of Personal Response

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gvok
Unregistered

I think to most Kerry supporters the SBVFT add looks like a smear. I would guess the Bush supporters are more likely to believe their claims. The question is, how will this campaign affect the swing voters. Personally (I consider myself to be a swing voter having once supported Bush) I think the swing voters will side with Kerry because on it's face it appears that Kerry's service during the Vietnam era is more impressive and it looks as if the Bush campaign is trying to make up the ground. JMO.

Anyway, I'm not sure we'll be discussing this two months from now.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
So just because somebody does something impressive years ago, that should be the major factor of their campaign? If Kerry were running to be President during the Vietnam War in some sort of electoral time warp, THEN I could say that his record would be a major campaigning point. However, if Kerry wants to be President TODAY, perhaps he should focus more on what he has done RECENTLY.

And why have Bush and supporters focused on Kerry's military record for their campaign efforts? There isn't much else to go with because Kerry hasn't put much else out there.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
gvok
Aug 23 2004, 08:22 PM
I think to most Kerry supporters the SBVFT add looks like a smear. I would guess the Bush supporters are more likely to believe their claims. The question is, how will this campaign affect the swing voters. Personally (I consider myself to be a swing voter having once supported Bush) I think the swing voters will side with Kerry because on it's face it appears that Kerry's service during the Vietnam era is more impressive and it looks as if the Bush campaign is trying to make up the ground. JMO.

Anyway, I'm not sure we'll be discussing this two months from now.

I guess Kerry has only Vietnam to run on, considering he didn't amount to much as Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts or their Junior Senator for 19 years? I guess he also wants us to forget his tenure at the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, his false testimony before Congress, his meeting with enemy leadership AS A NAVAL RESERVIST, and his "exaggerations" about himself and his record.

Yeah, I guess I'd run on Vietnam, too.

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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
gvok
Aug 23 2004, 09:22 PM
I think to most Kerry supporters the SBVFT add looks like a smear. I would guess the Bush supporters are more likely to believe their claims. The question is, how will this campaign affect the swing voters. Personally (I consider myself to be a swing voter having once supported Bush) I think the swing voters will side with Kerry because on it's face it appears that Kerry's service during the Vietnam era is more impressive and it looks as if the Bush campaign is trying to make up the ground. JMO.

Anyway, I'm not sure we'll be discussing this two months from now.

Regardless of whether the adds are smear campaign, Kerry is now spending most of his time defending himself on his own playing field. Most of the press he is getting is about this subject. Any press is not necessarily good press, in contradiction to the old adage.

Kerry doesn't like the way his smear campaign against Bush about the Vietnam service has backfired and exploded in his face and now he is crying foul.

The only other thing that I can remember hearing from Kerry lately is his criticism of Bush for not already enacting the recommendations of the 9/11 commission. Despite the fact that Kerry and Edwards have been faithfully showing up at their jobs in the Senate everyday trying to get this done. :lol: Gimme, a break, isn't the Legislature in a recess currently? What is Bush gonna get done?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
gvok
Aug 23 2004, 10:22 PM
I think to most Kerry supporters the SBVFT add looks like a smear. I would guess the Bush supporters are more likely to believe their claims. The question is, how will this campaign affect the swing voters. Personally (I consider myself to be a swing voter having once supported Bush) I think the swing voters will side with Kerry because on it's face it appears that Kerry's service during the Vietnam era is more impressive and it looks as if the Bush campaign is trying to make up the ground. JMO.

Anyway, I'm not sure we'll be discussing this two months from now.

I disagree, I to consider my self a swing voter as well (I voted for Bush the last time, but I supported Clinton in both elections). What I see is a bunch of playground tactics, who cares what specifics went on in these men’s lives 30 years ago. As far as I am concerned Bush served honorable in the NG and Kerry legitimacy won three purple hearts. Both served this country in their own way, and nether experience is going to be worth a lick in being president in the 21first century.

As for the going ons now - I see the SBCFT as an organization just as independent form the Bush campaign and Moveon.org is form the Kerry campaign. So the choice of what level that is belongs to the person reading this. What is good for the Goose is always good for the Gander, Kerry is being a baby for crying about it now (no matter how legitimate his claim is) because he is just as guilty.

I also don’t see what the SBCFT are doing as being as low level as what moveon.org has done. Moveon.org has sunk to such levels as to compare Bush to Hitler. In doing so they have trivialized what “real” people had to go through during Hitler’s range in saying it was at the same level of ease/hardness as the times we are going through now (legitimate question - which would you rather be - A solder during WWII or a solder during Iraqi? A Jew in Nazi Germany or an Iraqie in occupied Iraqi? If you pick now rather then then your judgment is seriously clouded). That is rude and a major disserves to those people.

Also I see the Right’s mobilization to attack Kerry on his war record just as much as a “retaliation” (ie they didn’t start it, which means something in this world since we act like children, and its accepted) to the left attacking Bush on his serves records as I see it as matter that would have been brought up any way to drag Kerry through the mud.

In the end, IMO Kerry comes out dirtier on this matter then I think Bush does (but not much).
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Um... this just in:

Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...

This is developing on the front page of the Drudge Report.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Wait, there's more:

* Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...

* In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'... Developing...
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
This just keeps getting bigger and bigger... and the Kerry campaign continues its slide into oblivion:

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc98.htm


XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE AUG 24, 2004 11:09:31 ET XXXXX

KERRY PHONES SWIFT BOAT FOES

**World Exclusive**

Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry personally phoned anti-Kerry swift boat vets, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Kerry reached out to Robert "Friar Tuck" Brant Cdr., USN (RET) Sunday night, just hours after former Sen. Bob Dole publicly challenged Kerry to apologize to veterans.

Brant was skipper of the #96 and # 36 boat and spent time with Kerry in An Thoi. Kerry and Brant slept in the same quarters, and Brant used to put Kerry back to bed at night when Kerry was sleepwalking.

Brant received a call from Kerry at his home in Virginia while he was watching the Olympics on TV.

The call lasted 10 minutes, sources tell DRUDGE.

KERRY: "Why are all these swift boat guys opposed to me?"

BRANT: "You should know what you said when you came back, the impact it had on the young sailors and how it was disrespectful of our guys that were killed over there."

[Brant had two men killed in battle.]

KERRY: "When we dedicated swift boat one in '92, I said to all the swift guys that I wasn't talking about the swifties, I was talking about all the rest of the veterans."

Kerry then asked if he could meet Brant ["You were one of the best"] -- man to man -- face to face.

Brant declined the invite, explaining that Kerry was obviously not prepared to correct the record on exactly what happened during Vietnam and what happened when Kerry came back.

Developing...

(Admiralbill comment: I think I've found John Kerry's campaign slogan: "That's not what I meant to say!")
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Quote:
 
(Admiralbill comment: I think I've found John Kerry's campaign slogan: "That's not what I meant to say!")
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Or: "That is not what I meant when I voted that way, or I would've voted that way had I actually been in DC doing my job."
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
As opposed to the Bush administration campaign slogan:

That was a clerical error, it's someone else's fault!
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I don't remember that ever being said... (unless you want to make a mountain out of a molehill about Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy and being on a no-fly list)
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