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Maybe Americans have always been nuts ..; ... and the world is just finding out
Topic Started: Aug 23 2004, 10:41 AM (367 Views)
Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Minuet
Aug 23 2004, 06:51 PM
As the article points out, there have been many open air events with thousands of participants. I am sure that at those events people were not checked for thier affiliation.


Personal Response

I would disagree with you that that is what the article says. The impression is that Bush/Cheney are handpicking every participant at their every event while John Kerry is meeting with hundreds of thousands of the "common man" without qualification.

That's simply not true.

End of Personal Response
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
You misunderstand me. I brought this up because some people on this board have accused Kerry of preventing hecklers at events.

I am not implying that Bush always prevents hecklers from coming in. I am only showing that both sides do the same, and both sides also have open events, so it is a non issue. Just another excuse for uncalled for mudslinging IMO.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Yes, when it comes to politics I think Americans (countries in general) have always been a little nutty. I think it seems worse than decades past (isn't necessarily worse) because information on the elections/politics is more prevalent (because of TV, Internet and other technologies), and because I am experiencing it as it happens instead of reading about it in a history book.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Minuet
Aug 23 2004, 07:04 PM
You misunderstand me. I brought this up because some people on this board have accused Kerry of preventing hecklers at events.

I am not implying that Bush always prevents hecklers from coming in. I am only showing that both sides do the same, and both sides also have open events, so it is a non issue. Just another excuse for uncalled for mudslinging IMO.

Personal Response

With due respect, based on your response, you seem to have completely misunderstood me ... so much so that I'm not sure that you are responding to me at all. Were you?

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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
38957
Aug 23 2004, 01:11 PM
By political freedom I meant that anyone can criticize the political figures without repercussions or retaliation.  If you're not impressed, I am sorry.  Try doing this in North Korea.

Yes, this means that we get jack-asses like Michael Moore as a side-effect, but it beats having people cowering in fear of the government.

And I can't honestly believe that Americans have elevated political squabbling to an art form higher in degree than anybody else.  I have studied global politics enough to write a book on the subject, but really, this sounds a great deal like America bashing.  I expect this from somerled, ....

That should have been "I haven't studied global politics enough to write a book on the subject, ..." I certainly couldn't write a book.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Minuet
Aug 23 2004, 01:45 PM
38957
Aug 23 2004, 02:11 PM
By political freedom I meant that anyone can criticize the political figures without repercussions or retaliation.  If you're not impressed, I am sorry.  Try doing this in North Korea.

Yes, this means that we get jack-asses like Michael Moore as a side-effect, but it beats having people cowering in fear of the government.

And I can't honestly believe that Americans have elevated political squabbling to an art form higher in degree than anybody else.  I have studied global politics enough to write a book on the subject, but really, this sounds a great deal like America bashing.  I expect this from somerled, ....

You honestly can't say I sound like Somerled :frown:

I am not bashing America - I am just not a fan of your political campaign style. My right to "Free Speech" should allow me to say this without being denigrated as an America basher.

Yes, there may be other countries that mudsling just as bad but not most. I guess my comparison point is Canada. And yes, some mudslinging goes on here as well. But it's not the same. I don't know how to fully explain it. I was in Houston during the State and local campaigns 2 years ago. I have seen the difference first hand. Maybe if you have never seen a more civilized campaign then you have no comparison point. However, Canada is proof that you can have a free election with free speech and still remain civilized.

No, I cannot honestly say thay you sound like somerled. Please forgive me the insinutation.

And, your right to freedom of speech is not covered by my constitution in Canada. I don't know what your speech rights are there. :P

Thirdly, perhaps that Canadian politicians save their incivility for publicly attacking American politicians and are all smiles and roses to each other at home. I don't know. I don't see the Texas local elections as being that bad as some stuff I have seen on the national and world news.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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I dunno... I remember hearing about some Texan campaigns settling their differences with their fists :P
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Wichita
Aug 23 2004, 03:18 PM
Minuet
Aug 23 2004, 07:04 PM
You misunderstand me. I brought this up because some people on this board have accused Kerry of preventing hecklers at events.

I am not implying that Bush always prevents hecklers from coming in. I am only showing that both sides do the same, and both sides also have open events, so it is a non issue. Just another excuse for uncalled for mudslinging IMO.

Personal Response

With due respect, based on your response, you seem to have completely misunderstood me ... so much so that I'm not sure that you are responding to me at all. Were you?

End of Personal Response

Yes, I was responding to you.

Ok, I took it that you quoted one specific sentence I wrote and took it to be what I thought the whole article was about. To be clear that was just one thing the article said.

There was some truth to the article. Also some falsehoods. It was very slanted, no doubt about that. As I said - the whole thing is a non starter IMO and just mud slinging. Neither side should be making such silly accusations.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Quote:
 
No, I cannot honestly say thay you sound like somerled. Please forgive me the insinutation.


Ok, you are forgiven :kiss:

Quote:
 
And, your right to freedom of speech is not covered by my constitution in Canada. I don't know what your speech rights are there. 


Ummmm, whatever you say. Just so long as you got the point.

Quote:
 
Thirdly, perhaps that Canadian politicians save their incivility for publicly attacking American politicians and are all smiles and roses to each other at home. I don't know. I don't see the Texas local elections as being that bad as some stuff I have seen on the national and world news.


Not sure where this is coming from. I don't recall any Canadian politicians making major verbal attacks on any American politicians. Unless you call not falling in line and doing everything your politicians try to order us to do an attack. :shrug:

And as I already stated, some mudslinging does go on. Just not to the same extent. Actually the one recent example I can think of was in a provincial election someone produced a memo calling one of the other candidates a "cat eating alien" or something to that effect. The end result was riducule in the press for the people who would make such an idiotic claim. It was the mudslinger who was made the fool of. The mud doesn't stick here because of a different mindset that we actually should talk issues and not war records, or personality.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Minuet
Aug 23 2004, 08:01 PM
Ok, I took it that you quoted one specific sentence I wrote and took it to be what I thought the whole article was about. To be clear that was just one thing the article said.


Personal Response

Yes, I was taking one sentence (basically).

No, I didn't think you thought that was what the whole article was about.

And no, I don't think that the article said the one thing that you referred to in your post.

I don't think the author is saying that Bush has large, open events and that it is part of his criticism of Bush.

End of Personal Response
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Eh ?

Me criticise the USA ? would I do something nasty like that ? :loling: :rotfl:

Careful Minuet , those rabbid Bushophiles and ultra-right-wings might start having a go at you too if you keep on questioning the way you did.

Bill:
Quote:
 
I remember hearing about some Texan campaigns settling their differences with their fists 

Now there's a thought - hang all advertising , the campaigning and muck slinging ,and there's plenty of it.
Let them slug it with each other in a room where only they are and who ever walks out at the end gets the gernsey. (That sounds fair to me - ps - no substitutes by chosen or self appointed champions and no interference).

Maybe it could be telecast live - that would put a new twist on reality TV , winner gets to be the Prez for 4 years - cant be any less sensible than the presidential conventions.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
The actual campaigns weren't decided by fighting, but rather imagined slights by one campaigner against another. For example, "Yer mother is a horse thief!"
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Data's Cat's Sister
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Commodore
Come on mud slinging goes on in ALL democracies. Does anyone remember the Tony Blair 'demon eyes' poster that had to be banned?

I think that its just much less noticable in Britian then in America however. Our T.V advertising is strictly regulated, each political group gets an equal amount of airtime, and these ads are carefully monitered. You therefore don't get the same level of negeative campaigning.

Also I think British politics used to focus much less on the individual candidates characters, so therefore less character assasinations. I think the trend is changing however.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Quote:
 
I can think of was in a provincial election someone produced a memo calling one of the other candidates a "cat eating alien" or something to that effect. The end result was riducule in the press for the people who would make such an idiotic claim.

That would go over about the same way here. That is a silly example and not comparable to the accusation about Bush's and Kerry's war records. A cat eating alien, huh.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
^^^^
ALF is running for office?
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