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One mistake Bush has made
Topic Started: Aug 20 2004, 12:31 PM (299 Views)
Dandandat
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Time to put something here
gvok
Aug 20 2004, 01:54 PM
Reasonable and equally informed minds can disagree on this issue.







I agree, I don’t have a problem with the disagreement, just the manner in wich the disagreement has manifested its self. The way we practice disagreement is self destructive.

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But consider this, what if instead of invading Iraq we kept the UN inspectors there and increased the pressure containing Saddam.  At the same time we funneled more money and troops into Afghanistan focusing on the border regions where the jihadists have taken refuge.
First, I believe the music would be the same, only the words would be different. It would make no difference whether we invaded Iraqi or not, you would still be hearing the belly aching now.

Second what of it? Reasonable and equally informed minds came to the conclusion that Iraqi was important. Then they did something extraordinary in modern American politics and went out on a limb for what they thought was right. Now instead of parsing that mentality we are chastising it. There is a big difference between coming to an opposite but informed conclusion and berating the other guy for his.

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I definitely think more people would support President Bush under those circumstances.  I know that I for one would still support him if that were the case.
And how was he suppose to know that? And even if he did some how know that, I don’t think I would want a leader who only did the popular things, to often have we had leaders who did the "popular" thing and in the end did nothing. Yes what Bush did was immense and yes many people are unhappy, but at lest he did something, something I believe he believe was the right thing to do. Its going to take a lot more immense and unpopular actions before we can say we are at an adequate position to wining this war on terror.
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gvok
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I think it was the wrong thing to do for the reasons I've already stated. I can really only speak for myself when I say that I would still be supporting Bush if he had followed that path. The popularity factor is only pertinent to this conversation because the original post talked about how the good will Bush had on 9/12 dissipated since then. It is my opinion that Bush squandered this by preemptively attacking Iraq in the manner in which he did. It is also my opinion that it was a counter productive action to take in pursuing the "War on Terror".
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
gvok
Aug 20 2004, 12:42 PM
I think Bush sqandered the good will of a large percentage of Americans and our allies by forcing an invasion of Iraq on flimsy grounds.

Oh, and is that why so many around the world were questioning Mr. Bush ordering an invasion of Afghanistan?

You do realize that all the arguments against using force in Iraq were originally used with reference to Afghanistan, don't you?

The Afghanistan invasion was unjust, we rushed to war, America was committing war crimes, it's all about oil, and that going into Afghanistan to get Osama bin Laden was imperialistic.

Dandandat is absolutely correct to say, "the music would be the same, only the words would be different."
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Minuet
Aug 20 2004, 11:57 AM
Maybe in choosing war with Iraq Bush underestimated Americans leftover feelings of confliction over Viet Nam. The differences between the two actions are quite apparent to some, but obviously have not been communicated enough to all.

There are only two groups of people who haven't gotten over Vietnam. One group is "has been" journalists who miss their glory days of writing anti-American muck. They perpetrate the Vietnam myths and legends. The others are the ones who hate anything having to do with anything military.
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gvok
Unregistered

Dwayne:

I disagree. Perhaps I'm in the minority and I can only speak for myself, but I am an example of someone who supported Bush through the Afghanistan campaign but changed my mind about Bush after all the recent revelations about Iraq surfaced. So, in my case I would still support Bush if we did not preemptively invade Iraq.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
gvok
Aug 20 2004, 01:19 PM
Dwayne:

I disagree.  Perhaps I'm in the minority and I can only speak for myself, but I am an example of someone who supported Bush through the Afghanistan campaign but changed my mind about Bush after all the recent revelations about Iraq surfaced.  So, in my case I would still support Bush if we did not preemptively invade Iraq.

What revelations?
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Am I the only one who remembers all the talking heads from both sides of the political spectrum who were criticizing Bush Sr. for not finishing the job in gulf war 1 and now these people don't think we should have ousted Hussien. There is no way to make everyone happy. Bush took a course, a course that I agree with, and has stayed on it and hasn't waffled the way I fear Kerry would by cutting and running at the first dissapointing public opinion poll.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Guys - this is the silliest argument yet. For goodness sake Admiral - have you never repeated yourself. Gvok is entitled to his opinion that the strike was pre-emptive. You have made it clear you don't agree - but you don't have to get upset over the use of the word.

Gvok - I sent you a PM yesterday to which you have not responded in any manner - Responding to this may help the situation.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
It was me, I did it.
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