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| United States army still using Napalm weapons?; Done on a technicality | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 13 2004, 04:52 PM (334 Views) | |
| somerled | Aug 15 2004, 05:45 AM Post #16 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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^^ Used in both Afganistan and Iraq - also used air-effect (cherry picker) bombs , and I have seen and read enough about the differences in their effects to know the difference. Not to mention that the military talking heads openly mentioned the use of napalm in several bombing raids and sorties. (Hoping that no one would pick up on the legalities or not knowing). US admits it used napalm bombs in Iraq (10 August 2003) Heavy reproaches against US Pentagon: Napalm bombs in the Iraq war (Date : 07.08.2003) US defends use of napalm-like firebombs Dead bodies are everywhere(March 22 2003)
Napalm |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Aug 15 2004, 09:52 AM Post #17 |
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UberAdmiral
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I never claimed to be an expert on napalm, but I could tell you a few things about the warheads in an ADCAP, Harpoon, Captor, or Tomahawk. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Aug 15 2004, 10:08 AM Post #18 |
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UberAdmiral
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Your first link would not work and required a subscription. Your second link; this is key:
It is not napalm. Get it? Your third link... napalm-like. Get that one? All US stocks of napalm were DESTROYED as of 2001. As for the UN convention that banned napalm and other incendiaries, it was banned against CIVILIAN TARGETS. These Mk 77s were used against MILITARY TARGETS? Get it? So: 1) The incendiary was not napalm. 2) It was used against military targets. Case closed. |
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| somerled | Aug 15 2004, 01:02 PM Post #19 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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It's an improved incendary based on napalm - ie more stable and more lethal in use - and releases more thermal energy. A nasty weapon and definitely a WMD. Can you prove they destroyed all stocks of napalm ? Why did serving officers say they were using napalm then ? That doesn't excuse it's use, which constitutes a war crime. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Aug 15 2004, 01:06 PM Post #20 |
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UberAdmiral
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Yes, it does excuse its use because the 1980 convention allowed it to be used against military targets. As I said, case closed. As for someone saying the word napalm, that doesn't mean didley squat. Why? Hell, I still say "tin foil" to describe what is actually aluminum foil. IT IS A FRIGGIN' COLLOQUIALISM. |
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| doctortobe | Aug 15 2004, 01:08 PM Post #21 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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They used the term napalm because it is a common name for fire based weaponry. A rifle is frequently called a gun but it isn't, it is a rifle. Neither of the fire based weapons used in Iraq had any kind of napalm in it. The UN said that use of incendiaries against civilian targets was banned. It says nothing of military targets which were the only targets hit. How is this a war crime? Saying that using these weapons against military targets violates a convention that applies only to civilian targets is like arresting a man for owning a pistol because there is a ban on assault rifles. |
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| CV6 Enterprise | Aug 15 2004, 08:35 PM Post #22 |
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Captain
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And flying civilian airliners into civilian buildings isn't a a warcrime? I didn't take time to read the artical, but if we are just using them against the non-civilian enemy, who is trying to kill us in very uncoventional ways, way not use it. Besides, in the words of Col. Kilgore from Apocalypse Now "I love the smell of napalm in the morning." By the way, cptjeff, peace is obtained through strength and superior firepower. |
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| somerled | Aug 16 2004, 04:07 AM Post #23 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Actually - no . There was no war declared at the time. Correct me if you better. That was a horrible act of terror , piracy and indescriminate mass murder. |
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| ds9074 | Aug 16 2004, 05:11 AM Post #24 |
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Admiral
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Nor was there war declared in Iraq, Afganistan or Vietnam. Just because there is no formal declaration doesnt mean there can be no warcrimes, although I would agree the September 11th attacks were not a war crime as such. They were a crime against humanity. |
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| somerled | Aug 16 2004, 01:29 PM Post #25 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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^^ In that case they are crimes against humanity. Of cause if one party is activily engaged in warfare then these can be both war crimes and crimes against humanity - take your pick. |
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| doctortobe | Aug 16 2004, 01:43 PM Post #26 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Well fine, but you have yet to give any evidence that is supported by the facts that this is in fact a war crime. |
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| Takamori | Aug 23 2004, 11:38 AM Post #27 |
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Cadet 3rd Year
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I'm a pacifist so i don't believe that peace is achieved through strength and superior firepower. Hence my very, very anti-Iraq war stance. I believe that it is all the same. Using incendiaries on both civilians and the military. There is no difference apart from status. They're people, and it should not be done. After all, how many Iraqis died in the war (civilians, I mean?) (So much for "Only attacking military targets"). Also, the amount of people, both British and American who died in the war is totally unacceptable. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Aug 23 2004, 11:46 AM Post #28 |
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UberAdmiral
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Tell me, then... how do you achieve peace when one side wants to eliminate you? This is the problem Israel has had with the rest of the Arab world. In fact, the Palestinian charter calls for the elimination of Israel. Pleae don't forget that it was radical Islamists who tried to bomb the World Trade Center in 1993, blew up two American embassies in Africa, bombed the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, sent a boatload of explosives against the USS Cole in 2000, and FINALLY destroyed the World Trade Towers with two aircraft, damaged the Pentagon with one more, and word has it that the White House was the target of the last aircraft. In addition there was the terrorist bombing in Bali in 2000 and the train bombings in Spain this year. So, let me repeat: HOW DO YOU ACHIEVE PEACE WHEN ONE SIDE WANTS TO ELIMINATE YOU? I'll answer it, and you won't like it (but I did spend 17 years active duty after Annapolis)... you eliminate them first. This comes through superior firepower and training. As for strength, that is the only thing a Islamofascist terrorist respects. Pacifism is not realistic, in today's world or any other. |
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| Minuet | Aug 23 2004, 12:21 PM Post #29 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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You do realize that had the US and Britain not invaded Iraq that Saddam and his sons would have murdered far more people during the same time period then were killed so far during the Iraq war. Pacifism sounds great on paper - but in reality it kills more innocents. There is a time to back off and a time to interfer. Finding the balance is the hard part. In the case of Iraq I think the world waited too long and too many people died as a result. The same thing is happening right now in the Sudan. Too many innocents are dying and the world is not doing enough to stop it. Better that 100 civilians accidentally get killed while bringing peace to a country then a million civilians getting killed because the world turned it's back on them. |
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3:23 AM Jul 11