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| Sistertrek Bush Approval Poll | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 24 2004, 12:47 PM (991 Views) | |
| Wichita | May 24 2004, 06:29 PM Post #46 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Personal Question Please explain why we were in Yugoslavia then. End of Personal Question |
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| Cool Vulcan | May 24 2004, 06:30 PM Post #47 |
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Captain
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Click my profile and you'll see. I don't mind you stalking me, as long as you don't try to feel my ass. I knew you were joking and I was joking back.
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| Fesarius | May 24 2004, 06:31 PM Post #48 |
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Admiral
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^^^ Er, glad to hear that you were just joking too. I just checked your profile--the heck with you! I'm going to start stalking those excellent Mustang cars! I owned two of them back in the early 1970s, my mother owned a white 1965, and my aunt owned a purple 1965 (or 1966?) convertible. |
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| Dwayne | May 24 2004, 06:33 PM Post #49 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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I'd like to feel it ... just so I can say I did.
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| benetil | May 24 2004, 06:58 PM Post #50 |
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Unregistered
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Hi, Wichita. Why? Why former Yugoslavia and not Rwanda? I don't know precisely what motivates our government to do some of the things it does. Althought I cannot answer why our government got involved in former Yugoslavia, the fact is that our nation was/is involved in former Yugoslavia. I think the mission in former Yugoslavia was the antithesis of what we've seen in Iraq - the potential for 'Armagedon' was real (not hyped), the mission was limited and clear (not an all encompassing religious escapade), the objectives were systematically met with adequate troops (compared to the intractible mess I'm seeing in Iraq). What I'm trying to say is that I contrast the overall missions in former Yugoslavia and Iraq - Meanwhile, I'm poised to hear more "black and white", "good vs. evil" rhetoric from our President in a few minutes. Yes - I'm saying there is a BIG difference between the way President Bush is handling and how President Clinton would have handled Iraq. I disapprove of President Bush's view of the world. I disapprove of the way he is handling the situation in Iraq. I hope that he (Bush) loses the election in November. |
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| Dwayne | May 24 2004, 07:08 PM Post #51 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Does anyone else see the illogic in this opinion? benetil can't answer for certain why we were in the Balkans, but he/she is certain that it is the antithetical to Mr. Bush's Iraq policy, and that there was real potential for an 'Armagedon'. As well, benetil cannot say for certain why we were in the Balkans, but is certain the objectives were "systematically met with adequate troops", while not really knowing what the objectives were. I personally hope that the opinions and ideology of benetil are cast aside by history as were the ideologies of isolationists over 50 years ago. |
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| Vger_art | May 24 2004, 08:16 PM Post #52 |
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To baldly go
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America's support for its farmers is damaging to poor countries which cannot compete with highly subsidised goods. Export subsidies allow western farmers to sell their goods abroad at half the cost of production, at the expense of far more efficient producers in Africa. That costs West Africa alone at least $ 200 million a year in lost exports. When prices go up again the agricultural dumping stops but by then it's too late, many african farmers are already broke and there isn't even enough production anymore to meet internal demands.
The ICC treaty has been signed by some 140 countries. Only nations such as China, Libya, Yemen and Qatar refused. I don't think the U.S.A. belongs in that line up. Why make an exception for American war criminals? Bush has forced separate bilateral immunity agreements from 60 nations, mostly either small countries or fragile democracies with weak economies. And if a country refuses to agree, Bush withdraws military assistance. He has already done so with 35 countries. Smells like blackmail to me.
It's not up to Mr. Bush to decide who the palestinian leader should be. He made an U.S.A.-Israeli deal about palestinian soil, ignoring maybe 50 U.N. resolutions, without having the palestinians to say something about it. Just about every government in the world agrees that was a mistake, by throwing oil into the flames like that he frustrated the peaceproces.
I said he does uphold patent laws on essential drugs, By doing so he has prolonged and exacerbated disease and the AIDS epidemic in undeveloped nations. Patent laws allow monopoly which makes prices go up and people can no longer afford vital medicines. Not exactly a sign of compassion.
I never mentioned global warming, I was talking about our environment in general but now you mention it: I don't care about a 100 years ago, I look at the present. Global warming is partly responsible for both desertification as well as floods. These, and other, environmental disasters cost a lot of money (not to mention lives). I think Mr. Bush doesn't want to be seen as the president who told his nation to pay for finally catching up on years of neglect and refusal to clean up the US heavily polluting industries (mainly the oilcompanies). Now, it is up to other western nations to spend billions on solving environmental problems also caused by american industries. That's not very social of him.
Almost true, Bush took the "initiative" for a $15 billion program fighting AIDS in Africa. Sounded great to me too! Except 33% of the AIDS money should go towards promoting abstinence (to assure the religious right in America that he is not encouraging immoral behaviors in Africa). $ 5 billion spend on "abstinence-until-marriage" programs which don't work overthere. Children are born with AIDS, people get AIDS in hospitals, most african women who have AIDS are monogamous and married. Only a small part of the population gets AIDS by having sex before marriage. Now US citizens believe they pay $ 15 billion in taxes to fight AIDS but in fact they are asked to pay $ 5 billion to promote "christianity" the way Bush sees it. After this Bush went on to encourage faith-based groups to opt out of AIDS funding that include promoting condom use if such violates their religious beliefs. Now you should know "catholic relief services care for nearly 25% of the AIDS victims in Africa". The president "could actually set back some small progress we had been making to contain this epidemic." Wanna know the most ironic part of it all? He hasn't made good on his promise yet and expectations are he won't. The money is needed for the tax cuts for the rich and the occupation of Iraq
Bush said he would urge EU governments to cut the $ 4 billion a year they spend subsidising farm exports. "European governments should join - not hinder - the great cause of ending hunger in Africa." Also Powell stated: "The President has taken action to eventually eliminate all of these subsidies over a period of time." I would have loved him for this exept not so long ago he signed a $ 190 billion agriculture bill into law himself inflicting much more damage than all other nations put together. I realize Mr. Bush did not become president of the U.S.A. to look after african or other countries but a) he's not being honest and b) I think his policy will hurt the U.S. in the long run as well. Pfff, and now I'm going to bed. I haven't spend so much time on one story since I was in college. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | May 24 2004, 08:25 PM Post #53 |
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UberAdmiral
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Vger Art, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings to you, but Global Warming is only a THEORY that is becoming less and less viable. Oh yeah, and let's try to stay on topic, okay? |
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| Wichita | May 24 2004, 08:42 PM Post #54 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Bill, he was on topic. He was explaining to us why he wouldn't vote for Bush. Dwayne and I asked him to clarify his comments. His reasons were as follows: (from the top of my head) *Bush put millions of farmers in Africa out of business. *Bush hindered the ICC in the prosecution of war criminals. *Bush failed to include the Palestinians in peace talks in the Middle East. *Bush supported patent laws therefore depriving poor people in other countries of medicines. *Bush ignored world-wide concerns about the environment. *Bush "imposed" an abstinence based AIDS program in Africa *Bush cheated the import export program. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | May 24 2004, 09:04 PM Post #55 |
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UberAdmiral
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To that I'd have to ask: What do west African farmers grow that American farmers grow? No, President Bush didn't hinder the ICC. He doesn't (Thank God) recognize the ICC. Actually, the ICC sounds like blackmail to me (but then again, I value freedom, not some Eurosocialist kangaroo court) Which war criminals is he talking about? Just what is "Palestinian" soil? All they have is what Israel has given them. There IS no Palestine... it was just a made up name used by the British a century ago. President Bush was right on the money (100% correct) in saying "Get rid of Arafat and elect your own leadership". President Bush is upholding patent laws because those pooooor impoooverished 3rd world countries are MAKING contraband versions of the drugs. Word up, bubba... you do NOT have a right to a drug or a patent. This is called capitalism. Third world countries were involved in THEFT. Is that wrong? I've already discussed the environment. We have the most industrialized, yet one of the CLEANEST countries on Earth. Stop presenting mindless pablum and give actual fact. Do you have a problem with abstinence? It works EVERY TIME IT IS TRIED. How do YOU know that abstinence-until-marriage won't work in Africa? I know you come from a permissive culture, but don't put your own set of mores on another. As for agriculture, you are trying to equate apples and oranges (please, hold your applause for that winning joke). Our agriculture bill does NOT subsidize exported crops, while the EuroUnion directly BANS imports of certain US goods based on faulty junk science. WORSE, you Euros have threatened African countries who can directly benefit from these GM crops... this is tantamount to telling them to starve. What do you have to say to that? |
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| captain_proton_au | May 24 2004, 09:12 PM Post #56 |
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A Robot in Disguise
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As I remember it, the world jumped up as soon as we all heard the phrase "ethnic cleansing' in the former Yugoslavia, there was no financial gain in going into Yugoslavia, just many feared Milosovic was another Hitler/Stalin. Even if you label Iraq a mess, it will be more so now if America pulls out. From what I have seen , Kerry is not strong enough to oust Bush, if the democrats had a stronger leader they may have won. If there are no more serious scandals in Iraq, I dont see Bush losing the election. |
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| Dwayne | May 24 2004, 09:14 PM Post #57 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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If that's your complaint, then why single out the Bush Administration or America for that matter? Farm subsidies predate Pres. Bush and are as common on French farm products as American.
I for one, do not want my nation apart of the ICC, because I don't want my nations soldier or politians subject to any non-constitutional judicial process. There are fundamental differences in how rights and priviledges are defined in American jurispurdence that is antithetical to how the UN, the ICC and the rest of the world sees it.
The United States is a soveriegn power and can place any demands it wishes upon a party that wishes an audiance with the United States. It's really that simple.
Well, you know what, America is a capitalist society comprised of individuals and businesses that spent their time and money to develop the drugs. There is a point where the patent holder no longer holds exclusive rights to the patent, but until that time, it's theirs to sale ... or not. It's not a monopoly to hold a patent ... it's only a monopoly if you deny people the right to buy a similar item from another source.
I can only assume you're not American and have never visited.
As a gay man, I am sick and tired of people claiming there's something wrong with abstinence programs. Not only is casual sex dangerous, regardless of your sexuality, it ultimately debases all involved. As for "making good" on promises, you obviously haven't a clue how the American system of governance works. The president proposes and congress approves, but congress may totally ignore what is proposed by the president.
A $190 billion agra bill that congress created. The president doesn't create the bill, he only signs it into law.
I guess you should have started down this path unless you're willing to take it to it's bitter ends. |
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| Sgt. Jaggs | May 24 2004, 09:22 PM Post #58 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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Well the votes are neck and neck at 8 and 8, and Somerlad has not even gotten loose yet. Cripes, we have another all nighter. Awsome commentary from both sides, very engaging. I hope nobody has a meltdown. I feel it in the air tonight......
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| Minuet | May 24 2004, 09:31 PM Post #59 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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Be a bit fair Dwayne. He is in Europe and it is probably very late there. I am sure he will be back tomorrow. Not everyone is going to post for your convenience. |
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| fireh8er | May 24 2004, 10:15 PM Post #60 |
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I'm Captain Kirk!
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I think the President is doing a good job! He has been dealt a hand that many couldn't handle. I have no complaint on his preformance. I wish people would give him a break and let him do his job! I will be voting for him again November. |
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I knew you were joking and I was joking back.




8:54 AM Jul 11