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Knock it off!
Topic Started: May 21 2004, 10:02 AM (888 Views)
doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
John Kerry and Congress voted to allow troops to be sent to Iraq, therefore they are also personally responsible for troops killed. The American citizens voted for both the President and Congress, therefore they are also personally responsible.

The Australian citizens voted for your government, therefore you are directly responsible for Australian soldiers killed. Even if you are against the war, you could have tried harder to get the troops brought home.

If you are going to place needless blame, make sure it is placed on all involved. That is only fair, right?
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
May 21 2004, 09:39 PM
Wicheta:
Bush Jr did order the troops into Iraq so that makes him personally responsible for any of your soldiers who die there.

Somerled is wrong again.

Only CONGRESS can declare war. President Bush can not.

Once again, Somerled opens mouth, inserts foot, and starts chewing vigorously... just like all flaming trolls.
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Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
Quote:
 
WASHINGTON — Despite misgivings about "going it alone," Congress moved resolutely Thursday toward granting President Bush the authority he sought to wage war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

The House of Representatives voted 296-133 in support of the president, and the Senate was certain to do the same by a similar margin, probably late Thursday night or early Friday morning


http://www.universitychronicle.com/news/20...aq-301275.shtml

Double the opposition to go into Iraqi buy congress they still don’t win.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
somerled
May 22 2004, 03:39 AM
Wicheta:
Bush Jr did order the troops into Iraq so that makes him personally responsible for any of your soldiers who die there.

Personal Response

Somerled, so you, like the US Senator who was quoted, believe that the entire operation in Iraq could have been run without a single loss of life or any cost to taxpayers? (That's what she actually said as opposed to what she may have meant.)

I suspect those with military experience in your family would find that as ludicrous as I do. :rolleyes:

Bush responsible for the death of soldiers? I never mentioned that nor was it part of the conversation.

End of Personal Response
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Well, theoretically if we saturated the whole region with nuclear weapons there would be no AMERICAN loss of life. It would also save the taxpayer a bit of money as they would no longer have to pay for the upkeep of the missiles. Theoretically.

Seeing as how this is about the only way to fight a war without losing life on your side, could this be what the Senator was advocating? ;)
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
ImpulseEngine
May 21 2004, 05:34 PM
doctortobe
May 21 2004, 01:20 PM
To both sides of the spectrum, I can say only this.

Mr. Kettle, this is Mr. Pot, you are blacker then a thousand midnights.

Both sides are guilty of rhetoric. Only one side is guilty of claims attacking people's patriotism and making accusations about aiding terrorists. THAT kind of rhetoric is inexcusable, counterproductive, and completely appalling.

Personal Response

Since I finally had a chance to hear all of Pelosi's comments today, I'm going have to revise my response.

I do not believe that those who question presidential decisions to be unpatriotic or aiding terrorists. However that isn't relevant here because Pelosi didn't question decisions or suggest alternatives.

She called the President stupid. Her comments were simply another version of the attacks during the campaign, in 2001, in 2002, and 2003 about the President's intellect. Further, I think that her suggestion that the mission could have been accomplished without loss of life or cost to the taxpayers calls into question her qualifications for judging the President's intelligence. (That is what she said.)

Do I think she owes the President an apology? No, but I do think that her use of the KIA in a highly partisan attack is appalling. If an apology is owed, its owed to the soldiers in the field and the families of those lost.

Yes, I know I am ranting - I'm done now. ;)

IE now for the reason I quoted your post ...

I will disagree with your assessment that only one party is calling the other unpatriotic. The Democrats may have better euphanisms, but several party leaders have done just that.

IMO:

When you say someone has betrayed their country, it's calling them unpatriotic.
And that is just one example.

Like I said before, BOTH sides need to knock it off because all of this crap is counterproductive.

End of Personal Response
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Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
ImpulseEngine
May 21 2004, 05:34 PM
doctortobe
May 21 2004, 01:20 PM
To both sides of the spectrum, I can say only this.

Mr. Kettle, this is Mr. Pot, you are blacker then a thousand midnights.

Both sides are guilty of rhetoric. Only one side is guilty of claims attacking people's patriotism and making accusations about aiding terrorists. THAT kind of rhetoric is inexcusable, counterproductive, and completely appalling.

Come on IE each side has its ways of discrediting the other just as some pro-war advocates consider all war-protests unpatriotic. So to are all pro-war advocates thought to be war mongers and brainwashed by some war-protesters.

The left cannot claim the higher road any more then the right can.
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Intrepid2002
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UNGH!
Jagalom Shaarek
May 21 2004, 08:36 PM
Too bad the Democratic Party does not have a good alternative to Bush. All you have heard out there is Bush haters and Bush supporters, not a Democratic nominee who can step forward and say "Here is what I believe in and why I am better."

It's not hard to find if you put enough effort into it.

Try something real easy the first time like www.johnkerry.com

To be an open minded informed voter you have to go out there and find it, not rely on sound bites from FOX.
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Intrepid2002
Member Avatar
UNGH!
Admiralbill_gomec
May 22 2004, 12:31 AM
somerled
May 21 2004, 09:39 PM
Wicheta:
Bush Jr did order the troops into Iraq so that makes him personally responsible for any of your soldiers who die there.

Somerled is wrong again.

Only CONGRESS can declare war. President Bush can not.

Once again, Somerled opens mouth, inserts foot, and starts chewing vigorously... just like all flaming trolls.





So what are you saying? BUSH had nothing to do with getting us into this war? Let's blame the congress for this one? Who controls the congress?

That one doesn't pass muster. You can do better.
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Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
Intrepid2002
May 22 2004, 09:37 PM
Jagalom Shaarek
May 21 2004, 08:36 PM
Too bad the Democratic Party does not have a good alternative to Bush. All you have heard out there is Bush haters and Bush supporters, not a Democratic nominee who can step forward and say "Here is what I believe in and why I am better."

It's not hard to find if you put enough effort into it.

Try something real easy the first time like www.johnkerry.com

To be an open minded informed voter you have to go out there and find it, not rely on sound bites from FOX.

www.johnkerry.com
 
John Kerry is outlining a real plan to improve K-12 education and make sure that all children get the skills they need to meet the needs of the 21st Century economy.
What president in the past hasent said they would improve education. Saying you are going to do something is not eangh - I want to know how.

www.johnkerry.com
 
First, Kerry will form a New National Education Trust Fund that will guarantee that the Federal government meets its obligation to fully fund education priorities. Our children are too important to be subject to the whims of budget cutters in Washington DC.
Yes our children are too important to be at the whims of budget cutters in Washington DC, I like the sound of a National Education Trust Fund. How will it work Mr kerry? :headscratch: I’m sure people who cut budgets that leave less money for schools aren’t doing it maliciously, so how do you get water from a stone? :headscratch: How will you in sure that this trust fund it fully funded and filled to the brim with the money needed? :headscratch: Sounds awful like the Social Security Lock Box idea is Gore secretly part of the campaign.

Quote:
 
John Kerry has already proposed the most comprehensive higher education plan of any candidate. 
Where is this so I may read it?

Quote:
 
Under Kerry’s National Education Trust Fund, any new education program Congress authorizes will be automatically funded by law. That would mean Congress and the Administration would be prohibited from mandating a program and not funding it.
Again where is that money going to come from? If they dont have it?

I’m sorry I am making a legitimate complaint on the part of Kerry tell me why I should vote for you, stop putting up the smoke an mirrors. I’m very disappointed with the DNC this time around. Yes I will acknowledge that it is easy for Bush as the incumbent but in reality that is no excuse if Kerry is not up for the challenge he shouldn’t run.
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Sgt. Jaggs
Member Avatar
How about a Voyager Movie
OK Intrepid, probe your sources and tell me what John Kerry has planned for us if he gets in office?
I am not jerking you around, I want to know. You put his URL out there so I am asking, what does he offer in your opinion?
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Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
Intrepid2002
May 22 2004, 09:39 PM
Admiralbill_gomec
May 22 2004, 12:31 AM
somerled
May 21 2004, 09:39 PM
Wicheta:
Bush Jr did order the troops into Iraq so that makes him personally responsible for any of your soldiers who die there.

Somerled is wrong again.

Only CONGRESS can declare war. President Bush can not.

Once again, Somerled opens mouth, inserts foot, and starts chewing vigorously... just like all flaming trolls.





So what are you saying? BUSH had nothing to do with getting us into this war? Let's blame the congress for this one? Who controls the congress?

That one doesn't pass muster. You can do better.

I don’t think Bill would blame any one, he is for the war. But where is your out rage when some one try’s to say that Bush single handled got us into this war, when it is fact that by overwhelming numbers in congress action was approved. This would mean regardless of which party was running the show in congress enough of the other side agreed.
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Intrepid2002
Member Avatar
UNGH!
That's what I say, knock it off already. Don't the republican's get tired of repeating themselves? Democrats are constantly on the defensive an the republicans are constantly on the offensive with their insults and insinuations. When a Democrat such as Pelosi finally says something that might contain a grain of truth the republicans are all in a fury demanding for an apology. :rotfl:

Okay, now interchange those two words Democrat and republican and we find ourselves contradicting each other.

Hurray to the man or woman who stands behind his or her party but has the courage to question their leader in times of doubt. Hurray to the man or woman who has the courage to stand out like a sore thumb and not follow their leader blindly.

I am an American first, and a Democrat and on top of that a Catholic and I resent being called anti-american or anti-patriotic merely because I don't like the direction our leader, the president, is taking us. I'm tired of the American lowering their expectations of this man, our president, who is still a public servant and beholden to all citizens of America. I've served my country in my own capacity and I hate it hate it hate it how the republican right wing message machine can ruin a man such as Max Cleland for example with no second thought. I hate it hate it hate it when the right wing faithful acuse Democrats of wanting to attain power when in fact, they merely asking for answers.

One of the most admirable Republicans I have seen is Sen. McCain, another is Arlen Specter. It irks me to hear them described as RINO's merely because they speak their mind. I guess it's because they don't fall along strict party guidelines, they DARE to ask.

Wichita is right and I can definitely empathize with Impulse Engine. Sometimes after reading all of this I just shake my head and wonder if this will ever, ever end.
I look at all the money spent on this war, I see the situation the country is in, and I just shake my head.

Knock it off already and how about channeling all that hate and blame towards finding a solution to the Iraq quagmire. Yes, quagmire.

But that's just my own personal opinion....
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Jagalom Shaarek
May 21 2004, 07:36 PM
Too bad the Democratic Party does not have a good alternative to Bush. All you have heard out there is Bush haters and Bush supporters, not a Democratic nominee who can step forward and say "Here is what I believe in and why I am better."
Without being substantive as a candidate, those voters that lie in the undecided category and are not just Bush haters will get the message that Bush is tough on Terror and vote for him.

I am curious as to just how many people really hate Bush and will vote against him. We shall see.

The answer is Joe Lieberman.
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Intrepid2002
Member Avatar
UNGH!
Jagalom Shaarek
May 22 2004, 10:02 PM
OK Intrepid, probe your sources and tell me what John Kerry has planned for us if he gets in office?
I am not jerking you around, I want to know. You put his URL out there so I am asking, what does he offer in your opinion?

Before this gets too far off the beaten path let me first clarify why I put something relevantly very, very simple as Kerry's URL out there for you sir. When you say that all you hear out there are Bush haters and Bush supporters, not a Democratic candidate who steps forward and says "here I am....... etc. etc" I merely want to point to you that the message is out there for you to find, to read, and to assess for yourself.

Regardless of what I say to you, you will not listen because of your bias. Bias is not a bad word. What I'm asking for from the right is not blanket statements but informed campaign statements. What I'm asking people to do is take the "anti-democrat-Bush is a dummy" rhetoric tone down a notch and keep an open mind. I want Bush to convince me that the right thing to do is vote for him in November. I myself am making the effort to try to understand what Bush is trying to convey by reading everything I can get my hands on. I'm making a sincere effort to listen to him. I want him to make it easier for me to vote for him.

I myself am still on the fence with Kerry but at least I'm not relying on the opinion cable tv networks and right wing opinion talk show hosts. I'm studying Kerry's stand on a lot of issues and will make my decision when I'm convinced of who is the better candidate. Like I said, I started with something relatively simple as www.johnkerry.com and go from there. I will make no excuses or blanket statements insinuating that the message isn't out there.

It's up to us to make up our own minds after we've explored all the options.
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