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BREAKING NEWS - WMD; Exploded roadside bomb contains Sarin
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Topic Started: May 17 2004, 09:44 AM (1,096 Views)
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somerled
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May 19 2004, 05:46 AM
Post #61
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Doc : You do know that Sarin is completely different to Mustad Gas ?
When I looked few hours ago there was still no mention of any alleged find of Mustard Gas in Iraq.
Have you concidered that the alleged find of Mustard Gas might have been fabricated, misreported, or found to be something else. Hence no report of it in ABC and BBC sites.
Look for yourself : ABC
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Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 20:12 AEST
Protesters hurl petrol bombs at UK embassy in Iran Demonstrators angry about the US-led occupation of Iraq hurled petrol bombs, firecrackers and stones at the British embassy in Iran on Wednesday, witnesses said.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 20:07 AEST
US guard pleads guilty to Iraq abuses United States prison guard Jeremy Sivits has pleaded guilty to charges relating to the abuse and humiliation of inmates inside Iraq's Abu Ghraib jail at a court martial in Baghdad.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 19:37 AEST
Israeli troops remain in Rafah despite protest The Israeli Army has destroyed the family home of the militant responsible for killing an Israeli settler and her three young daughters more than two weeks ago.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 19:18 AEST
Iraq 'job' harder than first thought: Howard Prime Minister John Howard has conceded the rebuilding of Iraq is much harder than he first thought.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 18:48 AEST
Second group claims responsibility for Salim's death A group headed by Al Qaeda figure Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has claimed responsibility for the attack that killed Iraqi Governing Council head Izzedin Salim this week.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 18:37 AEST
Three charged with Iraq abuse enter 'no plea' Three US soldiers charged over the abuse scandal at Iraq's notorious Abu Ghraib jail have declined to enter pleas on Wednesday during a series of short pre-trial hearings in Baghdad.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 16:32 AEST
US, Sadr loyalists clash near Karbala shrine United States troops and followers of rebel Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr have clashed near one of Shiite Islam's holiest sites killing at least two Iraqis and leaving at least three wounded, witnesses said.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 15:49 AEST
Howard marginally increases Iraq commitment The Federal Government has made a minor boost to Australia's Iraq commitment by sending two Federal Police officers to train members of the local Iraqi police force.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 15:25 AEST
Downer visits Libya to renew trade ties The Federal Government is following the United States and Britain's lead by exploring trade opportunities with Libya.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 14:46 AEST
Militant killed during Nablus clashes The Israeli Army has shot dead a militant from the radical Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades early on Wednesday during fierce clashes between troops and Palestinian gunmen in the northern West Bank city of Nablus, Palestinian medical and security sources said.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 12:33 AEST
Australians to train Iraqi police The Federal Government has announced the first commitment of Australian police for Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 11:00 AEST
Iraqi Reuters staff claim US abuse Three Iraqis working for the Reuters news agency have claimed US forces beat them and subjected them to sexual and religious taunts and humiliation during their detention last January in a military camp near Fallujah.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 07:55 AEST
British soldier arrested over fake photos Britain's Ministry of Defence says at least one British soldier has been arrested over the fake Iraqi abuse photographs published in the Daily Mirror newspaper.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 07:11 AEST
Iraqi prisoner abuse trial to start The first court martial of an American soldier accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners will begin in Baghdad today.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 06:15 AEST
Israel kills 19 Palestinians in Gaza raid Israel's Army has killed at least 19 Palestinians in the heaviest raid in the Gaza Strip for years as tanks and infantry thrust into Rafah refugee camp.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 00:12 AEST
Four arrested over beheading Officials in Iraq say four men have been arrested in connection with the beheading of American hostage Nick Berg.
[FULL STORY]
Wednesday, May 19, 2004. 00:09 AEST
Israelis sweep through Gaza camp Palestinian negotiations minister Saeb Erekat has accused Israel of perpetrating "war crimes" after the deaths of at least 15 residents during army raid in the Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004.
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 23:34 AEST
Britain to send 3,000 more troops to Iraq: report Britain will announce next week that it is sending up to 3,000 more troops to Iraq in an attempt to restore order before next month's handover of power to an interim Iraqi government, The Times reported on Tuesday.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 20:49 AEST
Loud explosion rumbles across Baghdad A loud explosion rumbled across central Baghdad on Tuesday, just hours after the funeral was held for the slain president of Iraq's Governing Council who was killed in a suicide bombing one day earlier.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 20:11 AEST
Downer in Brussels for EU, NATO talks Foreign Minister Alexander Downer will hold talks with European Union executives as part of an overseas trip that is also taking him to Libya.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 19:34 AEST
Israel committing war crimes in Rafah: Palestinian minister Palestinian negotiations minister Saeb Erekat has accused Israel of perpetrating "war crimes" after the deaths of at least 13 residents during an army raid in the Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 17:41 AEST
Iraqi journalists under threat covering war: report Iraqi journalists are playing a larger role in covering the US-led war and they are frequently harassed, threatened and attacked by occupying troops and insurgents, the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) said on Monday.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 16:23 AEST
Thailand flags Iraq troop pull out Thai soldiers stationed in Iraq could be withdrawn after the June 30 handover of authority by the United States if the security situation worsens, Defence Minister Chettha Thanajaro said on Tuesday.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 16:12 AEST
Security fears emerge as US prepares to relocate troops from S Korea The South Korean Government has moved to calm security fears as Washington confirmed plans to relocate 3,600 US troops from the tense border with North Korea to Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 16:00 AEST
Salim buried amid battles in Iraq A formal funeral ceremony for Izzedine Salim, the slain head of Iraq's US-installed Governing Council, has taken place inside the US headquarters in Baghdad.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 13:24 AEST
Howard rules out Iraq troop increase Prime Minister John Howard has ruled out any significant increase in the number of Australian troops in Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 10:08 AEST
Fifty killed in Iraq clashes United States forces say they have killed at least 50 militiamen loyal to radical Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in heavy overnight clashes in Iraq's south.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 09:20 AEST
Twelve killed in Israeli refugee camp raid: reports Eleven Palestinians have been killed and over 30 injured during a major Israeli raid on the Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip, while another died while trying to plant a bomb, medical sources at Rafah hospital said.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 09:08 AEST
Coalition firm on Iraq handover date Prime Minister John Howard says he does not expect yesterday's murder of Izzedine Salim in Iraq to delay plans for a handover of sovereignty on June 30.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 07:13 AEST
Iraqi captors release Russian hostages Two Russian workers taken hostage near Baghdad last week have been released as their electricity company vowed to stay in the country.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 06:32 AEST
US Red Cross boss quits amid Iraq prisoner scandal The head of the Washington office of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has resigned for "personal reasons", amid turmoil created by a secret Red Cross report on Iraqi prisoner abuse by United States forces.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 06:29 AEST
Syria sanctions will increase tension: Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia says that United States sanctions newly slapped on Syria would heighten tension in the region and demanded that punitive measures be imposed on Israel instead.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 05:52 AEST
Three to face court over prisoner abuse Three United States soldiers accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail will front hearings in Baghdad on Wednesday, the US military says.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 05:42 AEST
Annan shocked at killing of Iraqi leader United Nations secretary-general Kofi Annan has expressed shock at the murder of the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, Izzedine Salim.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 01:12 AEST
Shell containing sarin found in Iraq: US Army A small amount of the nerve agent sarin has been found in a shell that exploded in Iraq, the United States Army says.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 00:21 AEST
Baghdad blast kills Iraqi leader The head of the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council was killed in a suicide car bomb blast on Monday in the latest blow to US-led attempts to transfer power to Iraqis next month.
[FULL STORY]
Tuesday, May 18, 2004. 00:18 AEST
Russian hostages freed in Iraq: witnesses Two Russians abducted by guerrillas in Iraq earlier this month were freed in the southern outskirts of Baghdad, a Reuters witness said.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004.
Monday, May 17, 2004. 22:08 AEST
Blair condemns Iraq killing Tony Blair has vowed to continue to "help the Iraqis" after condemning the murder of Ezzedine Salim.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 21:00 AEST
Chirac 'dismayed' over Iraq blast French President Jacques Chirac on Monday expressed dismay after the killing of the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, reiterating a call for a quick transition to full Iraqi self rule.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 20:00 AEST
CIA sources on Iraq were 'deliberately misleading:' Powell The Central Intelligence Agency and other US Government institutions were sometimes deliberately misled about alleged Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in the run-up to the war, Secretary of State Colin Powell has admitted.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 20:00 AEST
Three Palestinians killed by Israeli forces near Gaza The bodies of three Palestinians who were killed by Israeli forces near Gaza City were handed over to Palestinian authorities on Monday, security sources told AFP.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 17:13 AEST
Car bomb kills Iraqi Governing Council head A suicide car bomb has killed head of the US-installed Iraqi Governing Council and at least eight other people outside the US coalition headquarters in Baghdad, officials said.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 16:09 AEST
Israeli forces advance into Gaza Strip A large Israeli force including tanks, bulldozers and helicopters is moving into the southern Gaza Strip.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 15:24 AEST
Fifteen killed, dozens wounded in Iraq battles Overnight fighting has claimed 15 coalition and Iraqi lives and left dozens wounded in several Iraq cities, according to military and hospital sources.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 14:11 AEST
US to redeploy South Korea troops to Iraq: Seoul official The United States plans to redeploy US troops away from the tense border with nuclear-armed North Korea for combat duty in Iraq, South Korea's foreign ministry said Monday.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 13:25 AEST
Prisoner abuse a sign of desperation: intelligence expert A MI6-trained former intelligence officer says the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison shows intelligence gathering is proving unsuccessful.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 13:23 AEST
Abuse scandal no reason for Iraq pull out: Govt The Federal Government says the current prisoner abuse scandal is no excuse to end Australia's involvement in Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 09:36 AEST
Howard not surprised by ex-soldiers' Iraq role Prime Minister John Howard says he is not surprised by reports that some Australian soldiers have quit to work as private security guards in Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 09:00 AEST
Israeli choppers hit Arafat's Fatah offices Israeli helicopters have fired missiles at an office of Palestinian president Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement and that of another faction in Gaza City.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 07:45 AEST
Militant group takes Russian hostages in Iraq A previously unknown militant group has claimed responsibility for the kidnapping of two Russian civilians in Iraq.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 07:23 AEST
Four killed at Israeli border: report Israeli soldiers have killed four Palestinians as they tried to cross the border into Israel from the Gaza Strip, according to a report from Israel Radio.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 07:01 AEST
Pentagon denies secret interrogation deal United States Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is under renewed pressure to resign after reports he approved a secret operation that encouraged the abuse of Iraqi prisoners to gain better intelligence.
[FULL STORY]
Monday, May 17, 2004. 06:00 AEST
Explosion rocks Iraqi marketplace A shell has exploded at a market in the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah, injuring dozens of Iraqis as fierce fighting continues between coalition forces and Shiite militias.
[FULL STORY
BBC
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Your 19 search results for "mustard gas"
Libya declares chemical weapons Tripoli details a huge stockpile of mustard gas and other lethal chemicals in a declaration to the UN. » 85% relevance | 05/03/2004 | similar stories Japan pays China gas damages The Chinese foreign ministry says Japan will pay $2.7m following a gas leak from World War II weapons. » 84% relevance | 19/10/2003 | similar stories Powell visits Iraqi gas attack town The US secretary of state says the man behind one of Saddam Hussein's worst atrocities will face justice. » 82% relevance | 15/09/2003 | similar stories China anger over mustard gas China summons the Japanese ambassador to protest at the death of a man poisoned by WWII chemical weapons. » 88% relevance | 23/08/2003 | similar stories Inquest date set for nerve gas case The date for a new inquest into the death of a young serviceman during nerve gas trials at Porton Down 50 years ago, is set for September. » 84% relevance | 21/05/2003 | similar stories Gas mask selling tactic 'alarmist' A company is condemned for using sales teams in gas masks to advertise its products. » 84% relevance | 26/03/2003 | similar stories Chemical weapons: Blister agents BBC News Online looks at the use and effects of weapons such as mustard gas, which burns the eyes, skin, and lungs. » 89% relevance | 03/03/2003 | similar stories Full text of Powell speech (pt I) The text of US Secretary of State Colin Powell's presentation to the UN Security Council, setting out the US case against the Iraqi regime (pt 1). » 83% relevance | 05/02/2003 | similar stories Surreal search for Iraq's weapons The BBC's Ben Brown follows UN inspectors around Iraq in a search for alleged weapons of mass destruction that is becoming increasingly bizarre. » 84% relevance | 07/12/2002 | similar stories Army's wartime bloomers revealed Records reveal World War II soldiers nearly took to the battlefield in women's underwear. » 82% relevance | 28/08/2002 | similar stories
Think you are flogging a dead horse on that one.
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Minuet
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May 19 2004, 07:47 AM
Post #62
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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- somerled
- May 19 2004, 01:27 AM
Minuet : I don't want to burst your bubble but - Howard was referring to that old Sarin shell that was rigged up as mine , and NOT to any Mustard Gas finds.
That is what we are talking about - the alleged find of a Mustard Gas munition made by Fox, but STILL not reported by BBC or ABC or ANY ( A N Y ) Australian networks.
How many times have Fox been first to report as a headline WMD finds were discredited or found to be something else? - I wonder if they take the time to check their sources thoroughly , and how much of their reporting is ratings driven ? They are certainly politically driven.
If both Sarin and Mustad Gas munitions had really been unearthed then that's a huge story and it with the elections in the UK, USA and Australia coming up soon it would be surely be getting more coverage if there was anything in it.
When did the subject change????
The description of this thread clearly relates to SARIN. My impression was that this was the find we were talking about.
However, I did go back and see that about halfway through you started talking about mustard gas for some as yet unexplained reason. (I can't wait to hear this excuse. If nothing else you can be quite entertaining at times)
Hmmmm, were you possibly changing the subject so that you wouldn't have to face the fact that a BANNED substance was found in Iraq?
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somerled
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May 19 2004, 07:59 AM
Post #63
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Minuet:
Here it is Bill's post May 17 2004, 04:57 PM - Quote:
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Here's the text of the Fox story
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Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq Monday, May 17, 2004 BAGHDAD, Iraq — A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent (search) recently exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday.
Bush administration officials told Fox News that mustard gas (search) was also recently discovered.
edit..... I wonder who that was ? why not name him/her - no wait - people would contact him/her to ask about it and the story would be exposed too soon !
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Two people were treated for "minor exposure" after the sarin incident but no serious injuries were reported. Soldiers transporting the shell for inspection suffered symptoms consistent with low-level chemical exposure, which is what led to the discovery, a U.S. official told Fox News.
"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt (search), the chief military spokesman in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy."
The round detonated before it would be rendered inoperable, Kimmitt said, which caused a "very small dispersal of agent."
However, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said the results were from a field test, which can be imperfect, and said more analysis was needed. If confirmed, it would be the first finding of a banned weapon upon which the United States based its case for war.
Click to Read the Weapons of Mass Destruction Handbook
A senior Bush administration official told Fox News that the sarin gas shell is the second chemical weapon discovered recently.
edit - Who ? what was the 1st find ?
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Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group (search) — a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction — and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."
They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account when he made his weapons declaration shortly before Operation Iraqi Freedom began last year. Iraq also failed to then account for 450 aerial bombs with mustard gas. That, combined with the shells, totaled about 80 tons of unaccounted for mustard gas.
It also appears some top Pentagon officials were surprised by the sarin news; they thought the matter was classified, administration officials told Fox News.
An official at the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) headquarters in New York said the commission is surprised to hear news of the mustard gas.
Edit : not surprizing since the report is a work of fiction
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"If that's the case, why didn't they announce it earlier?" the official asked.
The UNMOVIC official said the group needs to know more from the Bush administration before it's possible to determine if this is "old or new stuff. It is known that Iraq used sarin during the Iraq-Iran war, however.
Kimmitt said the shell belonged to a class of ordnance that Saddam's government said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war (search). Experts believe both the sarin and mustard gas weapons date back to that time.
"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said.
The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he added. The discovery reportedly occurred near Baghdad International Airport.
Washington officials say the significance of the find is that some chemical shells do still exist in Iraq, and it's thought that fighters there may be upping their attacks on U.S. forces by using such weapons.
The round was an old "binary-type" shell in which two chemicals held in separate sections are mixed after firing to produce sarin, Kimmitt said.
He said he believed that insurgents who rigged the artillery shell as a bomb didn't know it contained the nerve agent, and that the dispersal of the nerve agent from such a rigged device was very limited.
The shell had no markings. It appears the binary sarin agents didn't mix, which is why there weren't serious injuries from the initial explosion, a U.S. official told Fox News.
"Everybody knew Saddam had chemical weapons, the question was, where did they go. Unfortunately, everybody jumped on the offramp and said 'well, because we didn't find them, he didn't have them,'" said Fox News military analyst Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney.
"I doubt if it's the tip of the iceberg but it does confirm what we've known ... that he [Saddam] had weapons of mass destruction that he used on his own people," Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News. "This does show that the fear we had is very real. Now whether there is much more of this we don't know, Iraq is the size of the state of California."
But there were more reasons than weapons to get rid of Saddam, he added. "We considered Saddam Hussein a threat not just because of weapons of mass destruction," Grassley said.
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Iraqi Scientist: You Will Find More
Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border
. Edit : the plot thickens - some guy who wants preferential treatment , perhaps immunity from prosecution if he "cooperates" has said this.
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George said the finding likely will be the first in a series of discoveries of such weapons.
"Saddam is the type who will not store those materials in a military warehouse. He's gonna store them either underground, or, as I said, lots of them have gone west to Syria and are being brought back with the insurgencies," George told Fox News. "It is difficult to look in areas that are not obvious to the military's eyes.
"I'm sure they're going to find more once time passes," he continued, saying one year is not enough for the survey group or the military to find the weapons.
Saddam, when he was in power, had declared that he did in fact possess mustard-gas filled artilleries but none that included sarin.
"I think what we found today, the sarin in some ways, although it's a nerve gas, it's a lucky situation sarin detonated in the way it did ... it's not as dangerous as the cocktails Saddam used to make, mixing blister" agents with other gases and substances, George said.
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Officials: Discovery Is 'Significant'
U.S. officials
(Edit : who ? exactly )
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told Fox News that the shell discovery is a "significant" event.
Artillery shells of the 155-mm size are as big as it gets when it comes to the ordnance lobbed by infantry-based artillery units. The 155 howitzer can launch high capacity shells over several miles; current models used by the United States can fire shells as far as 14 miles. One official told Fox News that a conventional 155-mm shell could hold as much as "two to five" liters of sarin, which is capable of killing thousands of people under the right conditions in highly populated areas.
The Iraqis were very capable of producing such shells in the 1980s but it's not as clear that they continued after the first Gulf War.
In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo (search) cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed.
Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas.
Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly.
Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war threat.
Fox News' Wendell Goler, Steve Harrigan, Ian McCaleb, Liza Porteus, James Rosen and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
All sources that I have seen seem to have picked up this have done so after Fox.
Pay attention.
FROM WICHITA: The next time you insert your personal comments in the text of quotes, I'm going to just delete them. I've fixed them twice - that's enough.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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May 19 2004, 08:55 AM
Post #64
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UberAdmiral
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Mustard Gas Found:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1120720,00.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...17/170427.shtml
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13438
Still, short of tying up a howitzer shell in a big pink bow and handing it to him, Somerled won't believe anything.
The problem here is that you refuse to admit you were or are wrong.
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Minuet
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May 19 2004, 09:02 AM
Post #65
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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^^^Not only that Admiral, but even though the article Somerled quoted did mention Mustard Gas the intent of this thread was clearly to discuss the Sarin.
Somerled was losing the argument (and looking ridiculous with his CIA accusations) so he went :offtopic: in a weak attempt to make us forget his mistakes.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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May 19 2004, 09:11 AM
Post #66
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UberAdmiral
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An interesting side note about the sarin found in the shell. The quantity was over three litres. Yes, this much would fit in a 6" (155mm) shell.
Seeing as .28 milligrams is a lethal dose, that would kill a LOT of people if dispersed right. Thousands. Theoretically, perfect dispersal could kill over three million (if they were all crowded together). Airburst over a regiment of infantry? Pffft. Dead. Then there is the collateral damage to anyone else nearby. The thing about weapons like these is that they do not discriminate against anyone. A shift in the wind could disperse the liquid over a big patch of sand, or a town, or that regiment.
I read about the use of Mustard Gas and chlorine during WWI. The Germans used to have this stuff blow back at their trench, killing their own troops.
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When I looked few hours ago there was still no mention of any alleged find of Mustard Gas in Iraq.
You obviously did NOT use the Search function to look, Somerled. You simply posted the front page of each site. You're only thorough when it suits you.
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ImpulseEngine
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May 19 2004, 09:41 AM
Post #67
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Admiral
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Apparently David Kay concurs with my opinion that, if the shell containing sarin was part of a hidden stockpile, the insurgents would have known what it was.
From this article:
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It is hard to know if this is one that just was overlooked – and there were always some that were overlooked, we knew that – or if this was one that came from a hidden stockpile," Kay said. "I rather doubt that because it appears the insurgents didn't even know they had a chemical round.
Somerled:
Here's the original article posted by AB (i.e., the topic) of this thread. Where does it mention the recent mustard gas find? The article's title is "Roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent explodes in Iraq".
You were talking about the "lack of news" about sarin and changed the subject when you were proved wrong. Go back and read the thread. (It's funny how everyone here seems to know what you were talking about except you... :rolleyes: )
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somerled
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May 19 2004, 10:28 AM
Post #68
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Bill: Newsmax , Frontpagemag , really come on - where are the respected sources of news who aren't just Pro-Bush pro-war ultraright wing propogandists who are incapable of checking their facts. Seems you are clutching at straws.
The Gardian refers to a find that , I think you'll find was shown not what the discoverors thought it was based on inadequate field tests , way back in January.- Quote:
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Paul Harris in New York Sunday January 11, 2004 The Observer
Dozens of mortar rounds believed to be armed with mustard gas have been discovered buried in Iraq, Danish troops said yesterday Remember it now ?
From your own original quoted source at the start of this thread :
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Since the war ended, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.
In January, troops discovered 36 mortar rounds believed to hold a blister agent, but later tests showed there was no such chemical inside.
Get your facts straight , you also need to pay attention.
Minuet: Pull your head in if you nothing worthwhile to add.
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ImpulseEngine
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May 19 2004, 10:35 AM
Post #69
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Admiral
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The January find was shown by tests not to be mustard gas, but the mustard gas in recent news was found a couple of weeks ago - it's not the same incident. Look at the other 2 articles that AB posted.
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somerled
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May 19 2004, 10:52 AM
Post #70
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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I did, and believe these are not credible reports - you'll note that the BBC and the ABC (the Australian clone of the BBC and equally very high standard , highly trustworthy and world class in their professionalism and extent of fact checking), have not even mentioned any recent finds of Mustard Gas munitions in Iraq.
I've checked the ABC archives back as far Friday - zip ! That's good enough for me.
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ImpulseEngine
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May 19 2004, 11:01 AM
Post #71
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Admiral
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Well, I'm not assuming anything either way until I've heard more information. Lack of reporting (if true) in the BBC and ABC only indicates that they haven't yet chosen to report it. It doesn't automatically invalidate the story like you want to believe. They may just be waiting on test results or something else before deciding on the importance of the story.
Also, the mustard gas story was leaked. It wasn't originally intended to be made public. I haven't heard the reason for this yet, but undoubtedly that's why details are lacking. If the whole thing was simply a made up story, I would think it would have been announced, not leaked...
Something was found and legitimately believed to be mustard gas. Beyond that, I haven't heard any test results for proof.
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Minuet
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May 19 2004, 11:53 AM
Post #72
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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- somerled
- May 19 2004, 11:28 AM
Minuet: Pull your head in if you nothing worthwhile to add.
I could say the same to you.
The fact is that you originally stated that there was no coverage about the Sarin. When this was proven to be an incorrect statement on your part you switched to say there was no coverage of mustard gas.
No one else here was talking about mustard gas until you brought it into the discussion. Once again you made an allegation (about the sarin) that was proven wrong. Trying to cover up by changing the subject to insinuate that others were the ones mistaken only makes you look like a fool.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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May 19 2004, 12:07 PM
Post #73
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UberAdmiral
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- somerled
- May 19 2004, 09:52 AM
I did, and believe these are not credible reports - you'll note that the BBC and the ABC (the Australian clone of the BBC and equally very high standard , highly trustworthy and world class in their professionalism and extent of fact checking), have not even mentioned any recent finds of Mustard Gas munitions in Iraq.
I've checked the ABC archives back as far Friday - zip ! That's good enough for me.
No you didn't, and yes they are.
As you said, Sparky... "Pull your head in if you nothing worthwhile to add."
I'd bet money you didn't check a thing, which is why you simply posted the front page from each site.
Give up while you are behind. Your knee-jerk reactionary negativism is embarrassing to you.
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somerled
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May 20 2004, 03:02 AM
Post #74
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Minuet : At the time - there wasn't (of Sarin find), there was afterwards. (Breaking story ? I think was the term.)
There is still no credible reporting of this alleged find of Mustard Gas.
Bill : Yes I did - check and look elsewhere.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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May 20 2004, 08:13 AM
Post #75
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UberAdmiral
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- somerled
- May 20 2004, 02:02 AM
There is still no credible reporting of this alleged find of Mustard Gas.
Bill : Yes I did - check and look elsewhere.
No.
The problem with you, Sparky, is that you are in DENIAL.
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