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Reaction to the Nick Berg outrage
Topic Started: May 12 2004, 12:50 AM (1,730 Views)
Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Ds9074 - Actually it is not Holocaust 2 he is advocating, it is Hiroshima 2.

Food for thought - Hiroshima did bring an end to the war.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
I'd like to think I've made friends with some Iraqi bloggers, and in no way condone the wholesale killing of Iraqi's.

At the same time, I'm a realist and I realize that terrorists, both foreign and domestic, co-exist with Iraqi's who would say nothing about the terrorist element within their community.

In this light, I advocate that the US military, the IP and the IDF make it known that from this day foward, if a person is caught committing or anyway assisting terrorism won't be shown any level of mercy - they'll be shot on the spot and in public for all to see.

In addition, it should be made known that any man, woman or child who would come to cry, wail and nash teeth over these killings of terrorists, will in turn be shot on the spot as supporters of terrorism.

Every mother, father, son and daughter must know and understand the consequence for showing sympathy for these terrorists scum will get you arrested, showing outrage over the execution of terrorists will result their own execution, and simply assisting terrorists will result in immediate execution.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Wrong ds, I am not talking about Arabs, I am talking about a way of life that must be wiped out. Like Bushido, Nazism, and Communism, Islam is now in direct competition with democracy. Like these other ideologies, Islamic zealots will not stop fighting until either our way of life is destroyed or theirs is.

I have yet to see a Muslem express any kind of outrage that didn't have a "But they deserved it" tacked on the end. The news reports also mention that a good many Iraqis said he got what he deserved.

And you don't think that Muslems are so fanatical to Islam that they would do anything that clerics tell them? Look at Mogadishu, the entire city was talked into defending the warlord that was making their life hell in the first place. Is that mindless enough?
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ds9074
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Admiral
8247
May 12 2004, 03:44 PM
I dont think we should nuke them, or anything like that. Americans hold themselves to a higher standard than that. We could easily dust off the nukes, and not care about it. We could turn Iraq into the world's largest parking lot, but that is not the way we do things. American soldiers die to keep our standards higher than the terrorists, by doing their best not to kill innocents.

I agree with that 100%, well said.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
Food for thought - Hiroshima did bring an end to the war.

Yes, the Japanese surrended the next day, didn't they? And the treaty was signed soon thereafter. I look back at those days, and recall the stories my parents and grandparents told me about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I theorize, speculate, formulate, and try to legitimize from both sides. I believe we did the right thing. I cannot imagine what would have occurred had we (Truman) not had the fortitude to do what we did.... ;(
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ds9074
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doctortobe
May 12 2004, 04:00 PM
Wrong ds, I am not talking about Arabs, I am talking about a way of life that must be wiped out. Like Bushido, Nazism, and Communism, Islam is now in direct competition with democracy. Like these other ideologies, Islamic zealots will not stop fighting until either our way of life is destroyed or theirs is.

I have yet to see a Muslem express any kind of outrage that didn't have a "But they deserved it" tacked on the end. The news reports also mention that a good many Iraqis said he got what he deserved.

And you don't think that Muslems are so fanatical to Islam that they would do anything that clerics tell them? Look at Mogadishu, the entire city was talked into defending the warlord that was making their life hell in the first place. Is that mindless enough?

I personally know Muslims and they do not deserve to die. Many of them are involved with politics and democracy in the United Kingdom. Your idea that Islam and democray dont mix is totally false. While I think it is going to be difficult now we are in Iraq I think we can and sould see that country through to democracy. You idea seems to be to cut and run and then make Iraq (if not the whole middle east) burn.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I think a Spock quote is appropriate for this discussion:

"Really, Doctor, you must learn to govern your passions, they will be your undoing."

In other words, foreign policy based on feelings of anger and revenge is not the best solution. Yes, what happened is evil and wrong and those particular people should be severely punished. However, there are millions of innocent people who will probably suffer from our anger towards them because we don't know who did it and suspect everyone in Iraq. We have to deal with this rather than react with vengence.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Quote:
 
I personally know Muslims and they do not deserve to die. Many of them are involved with politics and democracy in the United Kingdom. Your idea that Islam and democray dont mix is totally false. While I think it is going to be difficult now we are in Iraq I think we can and sould see that country through to democracy. You idea seems to be to cut and run and then make Iraq (if not the whole middle east) burn.


Wrong, again. I am saying that we cannot win the war on terror until Muslem society is taken down to its foundations and rebuilt. In the path that we are going now, Iraq is doomed to go the path of all the other nations that we tried to mold in our image indirectly. What are the best examples of successful nationbuilding? Germany and Japan were turned into democracies because they were under total Allied control. We did not allow them to form their own government, we formed it for them. We made all the choices and said that this is the country that you are going to be.

You mentioned that it seemed wrong to tell the Iraqis which kind of government they could choose while setting up a democracy. Tell me this ds, did the Allies allow Nazi sympathizers to try to set up political parties in Germany? Did we let the militarists do the same thing in Japan? I think not.

You think I am cruel for wishing to kill men, women, and children? What of the bomber pilots who bombed German cities? Did the British feel sorry for the German civilians they killed? No. Why? Because London was being attacked and British men, women, and children were dying. Even when the Luftwaffe was completely destroyed and London was free from attacks, your people still pressed on until Nazism was completely destroyed.

So how is America's situation any different now? We have been bloodily attacked on September 11th, we are at war with terrorism which is nearly totally backed by Islam. We have seen our best efforts to wage a civilized war against the "bad" Muslems upset not only by the "bad" Muslems, but the "good" Muslems also. It is time for TOTAL WAR.
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ds9074
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Who the hell are we to take down Islam and rebuild it? We have no right to do so. Imagine if someone on this board was suggesting taking down Jewish society or Christian society by force and rebuilding it. Its a good job that your not in charge doctortobe as you make President Bush look like a moderate.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Remember what happened when the Romans decided they had to take down Christianity?
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
DS, you are so full of it. The Islamic religion is no different then the Nazis and Bushido Japan. Who were we to take them down? Just because they attacked us? Couldn't we have just tried to make peace with the Nazis? You remind me of PM Chamberlain you know that?

And BTW, FDR was strongly on the left side of the spectrum but he agreed that only total war would bring down the forces of fascism. That means that your ability to go the distance needed to take down your enemy does not lie in your political allignment, it lies in your INTESTINAL FORTITUDE.

Why does Islam get the PC protection when Nazism and Bushido did not? Bushido was just as much a religion as Islam is. Oh, and BTW, how often do Jews and Christians drag the bodies of dead soldiers through the streets and decapitate civilians? If they were doing stuff like that, I would be advocating their downfall as well.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
The Sisko
May 12 2004, 12:21 PM
Remember what happened when the Romans decided they had to take down Christianity?

The general Constantine saw a vision of a cross with the words "By this sign you shall conquer". This caused him to convert and, after becoming Emperor of Rome, issue the edict of Milan that allowed Christianity to become legal. What is your point?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
^^^
Ask people from Central and South America about Christians torturing people, my point is, Rome sought to destroy Christianity, and was conquered by it.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Wrong, Rome attempted to destroy Christianity and probably would have if not for Constantine's conversion. As for the people of South America. That was more over petty greed then the kind of religious zealotry that Islam threatens us with. The conquistadors were not interested in the native's religion. The natives had gold and the conquistadors wanted it. It was much easier to kill the natives then to trade with them. The conquistadors merely used Christianity to excuse their actions.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Similarly, these fundamentalists are using Islam to justify their heinous actions. They're not what you'd call devout worshippers of God. You know what the guys who carried out 9/11 did the night before? Tried to hire prostitutes. Hardly what I'd call "God's army". These guys just are using God to help them commit atrocities and believe they're doing something good. Often people who are willing to kill themselves to hurt and kill others are totally delusional and out of touch with reality. Religion is an attractive justification for anger and hate.
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