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Reaction to the Nick Berg outrage
Topic Started: May 12 2004, 12:50 AM (1,722 Views)
8247
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Apparently we look like this now
First of all, I think that this topic deserves its own thread. I ask the the admininstration to PLEASE not merge this with the Nick Berg RIP thread. Read on, and you'll see why.

I heard about this this morning on the radio, and of course, I was mad. I can just see the blame for this being put on Bush, and the military. I continued to listen to the various radio personalities talking about, and I was getting more and more irritated because I KNOW that after the shock of this wears off, the Blame America First crowd will start pointing fingers at everyone BUT the sick F%^%^'s who did this.

I got home tonight, and I looked over the other thread, and I looked at the first link where Yahoo stopped footage of it right as that terrorist coward pulled out the knife. That made me REALLY mad when I saw the knife. I too had heard reports that it was quick, and I knew that it couldnt be quick with that knife. I found the other link, and what I saw was anything BUT quick. As Dwayne said, they sawed the man's head off. I wont go into any more detail. If you want to see it, you can. But, as a result, I vomited all over my desk.

These terrorist cowards are accustomed to the use of FEAR as a method of control. Has anyone noticed that since the release of these "abuse" photos, the number of insurgent activities has significantly gone down? They are terrified because the thought of a WOMAN laughing at them naked is worse than death. Now, onto my point. This video footage of this cowardice act has envoked MANY emotions in me. Hatred, determination, anger, vengeance, just to name a few. This is probably the most disturbing thing that I have ever seen in my life. Even more-so than the 9/11 footage. I cant explain why, and I'm not going to try to. It is going to take me a long time to get over seeing that. I'm still in shock, but I am capable of clear thought...if that makes any sense. These cowards thought that the US people seeing this footage would scare us. In the emotions that were envoked, did I list fear? NOPE!!!! I want so very badly to go over there, and take some of these bastards out. I cant due to physical limitations, and most of you know that.

Now, on to my next point...The Blame America First crowd. If ANY of these media $%^^%&$&$ers even hint that we were somehow responsible for this, I think that anger will prevail with the American people. I hope John Kerry tries that angle. That would be a slam dunk for Bush, and it would reveal Kerry for what he truly is...A puppet. If we ever needed a validation for the US being involved in the War on Terror, THIS IS IT!!!! These people will never be reasoned with. The only thing they know is force, SO LETS SHOW THEM SOME F^^^%ing FORCE!!! Lets turn loose our boys and girls in the US military over there, and show the same determination we had when the 187'th Infantry Battalion of the 101st Airborne Division was involved in "Operation Anaconda" in Afghanastan. Let's let loose EVERYTHING that our military is capable of, and KILL every single one of these terrorist bastards.

Remember this...The Rules of Engagement, and the Geneva Convention do NOT apply here. Those rules were set out for soldiers who operated in a legitimate military, and wore a uniform. These people are illegal combatants, who do not wear a uniform, and have no chain of command to follow. They have NO rights. These terrorists ATTACKED US first. They attacked the fricking Pentagon, for crying out loud. Do these Bush/America haters not realize how serious this is?

I say if were going to fight a war, LETS FIGHT A WAR! :realmad:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
:hail:
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Save the taxpayers some money decommissioning nuclear and chemical weapons and just lob them over Islamic cities. I don't care how many men, women, and children are there. The more the merrier in my opinion. The Muslems must hate us a whole lot to justify this kind of filth. I say we live up to their expectations. Scramble the B-52s and carpet bomb with cluster bombs without regard to civilian casualties. Put dead livestock in their wells. Thrust the bodies of militants onto pikes and put them on top of mosques. These beasts want to fight like it is the 13th century, I say we oblige.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I agree that we should go on hunting down and killing these bastards with all available force, but there are people in Iraq that should not be harmed. And we should do our best not to harm them. We must fight the good fight or risk becoming like the evil doers against whom we fight.

I think that Americans will react to this by and large like they did on Sept. 11, with a great deal of anger. This can only strengthen the resolve of the US to fight terrorism. The coallition military forces continue to win impressive victories against these bums when ever they fight. I only hope we keep fighting and not play politics or give in to the never-ending whining of the left.

Another thing that agrivates me is that the US uses very expensive smart laser guided bombs with satellites and aerial guidance to avoid even breaking a window in a Mosque, but the Islamic savages routinely bomb mosques of opposing factions. Nobody complains about the Islamic savages bombing mosques, but not only does the US not get credit for avoiding mosques, we get accused of doing it intentionally when one gets damaged.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
This is proof that it is time to take the gloves off. Fighting the war as "PC" as possible is actually costing us soldier and civilian lives. Just go in, wipe them out, and move on. Islamofascism must be wiped out. There is no co-existence, no Kumbaya moments, nor understanding the roots of their hatred. They are barbarians looking to kill us and subjugate their own people. Kill them.

There was an interesting program on the History Channel last night (that I had hoped to see, but I was helping my son with fractions). It was about the Werwolves, who were the German guerilla fighters after WWII. Interesting parallels.
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ds9074
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Admiral
Your rightly angry about the killing of a US citizen in the most grotesque circumstances. We need to remember, however, that going in with a too heavy a hand is likely to create more terrorists not less. The last thing we want to do is start are cycle of violence with the Muslim world which would be like Israel/Palestine made large. We choose to take the moral high ground and we are better if we stay there. The last thing we need to do is sink to the level of the terrorists.

I cant understand why you would care so little for the lives of innocent men, women and children doctortobe. They are no more to blame for terrorist acts than the majority of Christians would be if fanatics of their faith took similar actions. We should fight the terrorists not Islam. Even if we wanted to we could not destroy the Islamic faith or kill all Muslims. Hitler had the idea of killing people on the basis of their religious faith and the result was arguably the worse attrocity in human history. We dont want to repeat that chapter in history.

Personally I take the view that we should take action to protect ourselves from future attacks but should not seek to take revenge for a killing, however bad that might be. I take that view because its integral to the Chritian faith which I have. The hardest person to love is your enemy, yet when Christ was on the cross, even after all the torture he had faced, he asked that his tormentors be forgiven.

Quote:
 
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


Romans 12

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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
If you are referring to the butchering of that american contractor - I have not visited the web site - I've heard and seen all I need to in order to say the people who inflicted this brutal (barbaric) murder are criminals of the very worse kind and deserve being hunted down and brought to book for what they did.

I feel for his family - but not being in their position I could never truely understand how they are feeling right now.

Doc:
Quote:
 
Save the taxpayers some money decommissioning nuclear and chemical weapons and just lob them over Islamic cities. I don't care how many men, women, and children are there. The more the merrier in my opinion. The Muslems must hate us a whole lot to justify this kind of filth. I say we live up to their expectations. Scramble the B-52s and carpet bomb with cluster bombs without regard to civilian casualties. Put dead livestock in their wells. Thrust the bodies of militants onto pikes and put them on top of mosques.

Idiot ! :frust:

If you are SERIOUSLY advocating this , because of the brutal murder on ONLY one man then YOU SERIOUSLY & URGENTLY need to seek out professional counciling.

So all the islamophobes will come out of their closets now.

Is this just a knee jerk reaction or have you put a lot of thought into this ?

You probably don't want to read this :
Iraqis condemn beheading
Quote:
 
"Since the man came here to do something good for Iraq, it was shameful. Whoever comes to serve this country will be treated kindly by Iraqis, but I blame the Americans for being behind such activities," said restaurant worker Falah Faisal, 30.

..


The video of Berg's killing was entitled "Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi slaughtering an American", though it was not clear if he was involved.

"These people aren't Muslims. They are just using Islam as a cover and are harming the reputation of this religion,"

..

Muaid Louis Abdullah Ahhad, a Christian who owns a photo shop, denounced the execution and blamed followers of wanted al-Qaeda militant Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi for the beheading.




Surely not all your fellow americans want what you have advocated.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
DS9074 and Somerled please READ the title of this thread again before you go too far off topic.

Posters are stating their reaction. They ARE angry. Look at your watch and count off 30 seconds. Then imagine that it took that long to saw off the head of one of your countrymen and see how you would feel - especially if you are told that you, not the people who carried out the act, are responsible for it.

But first reactions from members of this board DON'T translate into American foreign policy. They are simply expressing outrage at an outrageous event.

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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Wicheta:

I was fully aware of the title of the thread - however Doc's response was over the top.

I hope he regrets posting what he did.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
^^^I read your link.

It's amazing how backhanded the majority of those "condemnations" are. I don't think it is a condemnation when one says that they "understand" how it happened because the Americans are so horrible.

At least Americans have had the grace to take thier lumps for thier wrongdoings. I haven't seen anyone condemning the tortue of the Iraqi prisoners by saying "It's wrong, but the buggers deserved it".

As for your comments about the Islamophobes coming out of the woodwork, I have only this to say - It is natural to hate someone who hates you no matter how hard you try to help them. I fully understand the anger Americans are feeling today. And I have no doubt that they will take thier time and not act rashly on this anger. Give them a day or two to cool down and the angry rhetoric will subside.

Wish I could say the same for the Islamic extremists.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
I think we are all right to be angry and disgusted about Berg’s murder. This must strengthen our resolve in finding and eradicating terrorists. However, what this shouldn’t do is turn us (our Gov’t) into a bunch of warmongers who go and cause massive wide destruction (i.e. bomb the s&*T out of Iraq) in an effort to find these terrorists.

Berg was in Iraq on his own accord, he was apparently told to leave Iraq but chose to stay knowing full well the dangers that faced foreigners in Iraq at this juncture (we are still at war right now). This in no way excuses what happened to him. We also can’t offer up a solution/response that would involve the indiscriminate killings of men, women and children for the death of one man who chose to put himself in the “line of fire” as it were. I am sure he was fully aware of the risks involved working in a "war zone." LINK

We need a better solution. We as a nation are and must continue to be better than these slimeballs. That means we continue on the path that we are on. We continue to take the precautions that we must to preserve as much life as possible. We stay in Iraq until it is relatively safe to hand over security to the Iraqi Government. The best solution and proportionate response to this atrocity is to continue what we are doing (and not allow this atrocity to deviate us from our mission in Iraq). Out of anger a long time ago, on a thread far away, I advocated we send more troops to Iraq. I am going to advocate this again. I think we need to send more troops back into Iraq to facilitate our “mission accomplished.” I think our men and women in uniform are wonderful, accomplished and competent. However, they can only do so much. I think they need more help or the situation will only deteriorate.

That is my reaction (opinion)...

Again, I offer my condolences to the Berg family. Their son was in Iraq trying to better the lives of the Iraqi people. The world needs more people like him.
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ds9074
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Admiral
I think it is perfectly valid to comment in the way that I did. People are again seeming to confuse terrorists with Muslims in general which is both WRONG and DANGEROUS.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
I sure as hell am not going to go back on my statement. At this point, Muslems will always go with the advice of their clerics over the advice of anybody else or even common sense. This means that no matter how hard we try, no matter what we do to make the region more stable, just one word from their clerics will send them out to kill as many people as they can. A cleric can get a Muslem to attack foreigners just as easily as you can get your friend to get a beer with you.

Someland you are the idiot for not seeing something as plain as day. You frequently say that your grandfather fought with distinction in WWII against the Japanese. Well, this enemy has almost everything in common with them and they need to be dealt with the same way.

Islam, like Bushido, is both a social structure and a religion.

The Muslems, like the Japanese, use their religion to drive people to needless suicide attacks in hopes of demoralizing the enemy.

The Muslems, like the Japanese, use their religion to justify heinous acts on human beings.

The only way that the Japanese were brought down was an attack on their homeland that was so destructive, that took so many lives, that they surrendered out of fear that we would do it again. When we occupied Japan, we forced their Emperor to go around proclaiming pro-democratic ideals and renounce his godhood given by Bushido.

Likewise, in the Middle East, we must cause such destruction that the ingrained obedience of the Muslems is shaken. We must seize control of the mosques and the clerics and force them to preach peace and freedom. We must have the overwhelming control that we had in Japan. Replacing the social structure of Muslems brick by brick isn't going to work. We must totally tear down the social structure and rebuild it from the bottom.

And no, I am not an Islamophobe. Phobe means to fear, and I don't fear them.
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ds9074
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Admiral
Frankly I find your post disturbing. You seem to believe all Muslims are mindless suciders-in-waiting. That is quite simply wrong.

Quote:
 
A cleric can get a Muslem to attack foreigners just as easily as you can get your friend to get a beer with you.


What crap are you on about. I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. Its racial/religious hate doctortobe.

You mention WW2 well as I posted before in that conflict one side decided to group everyone from the same religion together and kill as many of them as possible. What your suggesting is virtually a holocaust II - this time for Muslims.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
I dont think we should nuke them, or anything like that. Americans hold themselves to a higher standard than that. We could easily dust off the nukes, and not care about it. We could turn Iraq into the world's largest parking lot, but that is not the way we do things. American soldiers die to keep our standards higher than the terrorists, by doing their best not to kill innocents.
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