Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Nick Berg - Rest in Peace
Topic Started: May 11 2004, 02:22 PM (996 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 05:01 PM
Look, I don't think there's any doubt that what happened to this gentleman is extremely tragic, but to make blanket statement about millions of people is simply incorrect.  Who knows?  It's possible if we did do things differently that Islam wouldn't hate us so much.  But that's a moot point since we're never going to change how we do things.  Now that there's been a terror attack on the U.S. and we're invovled in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 but is causing the deaths of nearly a thousand Americans, our policy toward Islam is unlikely to change.


Everything about the Middle East is connected to everything in the Middle East.

They hate the West primarily because we're not Muslim.

They hate us secondary because we support Israels' right to exist.

They hate us because we kicked Iraqs army out of Kuwait.

They hate us because we enforced UN sanction against Iraq for over a decade.

They hate us because we let women work, own land, take supervisor positions and have power.

They hate us because we don't automatically kill homosexuals.

They hate us because ... just because they hate us.

All the reasons why they hate us are inter-connected to some level, all the Middle Eastern terror groups are inter-connected to some level and all the state sponsors of terrorism are inter-connected on some level.

The whole reason a Sudanese aspirin factory was bombed in the 1990's was because the soil surrounding it contained traces of chemicals that indicated WMD production and both Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were financiers of that factory.

Osama bin Laden's casus belli in 1998 for declaring war against the United States was primarily because US forces were on the Arabian penisula enforcing UN sanctions against Iraq and secondarily because the United States supports Israel.

A settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian issue could have been reached if Saddam Hussein hadn't paid Hamas to derail the process.

If you cannot see how all this is connected to each other, then you're blind, stupid or both!
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Yes, but the difference is Al Qaeda attacked us. We should concentrate our efforts on taking them down instead of spreading our troops thinner fighting a war that had nothing to do with that attack. We should be fighting a covert war through covert means instead of bombing civilians and helping Al Qaeda recruitment drive by creating more Muslim widows and orphans. We should be working in coalition with other international crime fighting organizations like Interpol and working with our allies in Europe and around the world rather than thumb our nose at them and infer that they are irrelevant. You can't fight an invisible enemy by dropping bombs and hoping that kills a few of them. You have to work in a concentrated, covert effort to infiltrate the enemy from within and reveal their locations, tactics, leaders, etc. This is a long drawn out war (war on terrorism) but it can't be done through overt means. It's not logical.

Part of Islam's beef with us is that we support dictatorial regimes in the Middle East that we trade with like Saudi Arabia. It's no coincidence that most of the individuals responsible for 9/11 were Saudis. Also they don't want to be exposed to our media. I don't see what's wrong with trading only goods that meet with their approval. We can sell them cars and computers, but the media can be left out. This will actually create a black market where the people who want our media will pay extra for it and fund the anti-fundamentalist movements that forbid it. The change in regime can come from within that way rather than our getting involved directly which is costly in both lives and money. We can actually make money by building up their media black market.

By the way, I am neither blind or stupid, nor is anyone else who simply disagrees with your perspective and opinion. Please leave the personal insults at the door when you come to debate. That's not the way it's done.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Quote:
 
Dwayne
May 11 2004, 05:55 PM
:cry:

Have you seen the video?!?!?!?!

I thought you didn't want to see it.

I didn't want to, but my significant other wanted to watch it, and I decided to watch it just so I can speak with authority about it.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
It's absolutely and totally disgusting, and this poor man died in a horrible torturous manner. Nothing that happened in that prison even comes close to this.
I haven't watched it, but no doubt you are right based on what I've heard.

Just as you cannot appreciate how abusive these those MP's were until you saw the pictures, you cannot appreciate how horrendous this video is until you see it.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
This is no different than what happened to Daniel Pearl, so this crap that this is in retaliation for abuses at some prison is without merit.

It's just an excuse.
I completely agree.

At least we can agree on something.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Peace protesters are deluded and illogical, because they think if we just did thing differently that Muslims wouldn't hate America and they blame America for the attacks carried out by this enemy.
Some may believe that, but many believe that what we are doing not only doesn't help, but actually makes things worse.

Considering that the incidents of terrorism are lower than they've been in years, I'd say you're categorically WRONG!

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
What really sickens me further is that the father of Nick Berg blames the American government for what happened to his son.
Al Qaeda is to blame. Period. But that doesn't mean there isn't a valid point that the father is making. If we weren't in Iraq and if we weren't abusing prisoners, that particular son might still be alive.

That's bull. That's not the first beheading carried out by these inhuman scum.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
I maintain that if it were for the leftists spreading doubt about the war, Nick Bergs father would place blame squarely where it belong - Islamists terrorists.
You're entitled to your opinion, but that's what it is.
That's a given, and should be apparent considering I started the sentence with the phrase, "I maintain".
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
:cry:

Gosh, maybe I shouldn't have watched the video. I'm so angry right now I cannot find the words to describe it.

If I were to act on my feelings, I'd want the military to march one terrorist after another out into the street and shoot the puckers in the head.

Anyone of them that comes up to wail and cry about it - shoot that one in the head too until there's none left.

Bomb al Jazeera.

Nuke Tehran.

I'M SO FRIGGEN ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:realmad:
:realmad:
:realmad:

:cry:
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 05:24 PM
Yes, but the difference is Al Qaeda attacked us. We should concentrate our efforts on taking them down instead of spreading our troops thinner fighting a war that had nothing to do with that attack. We should be fighting a covert war through covert means instead of bombing civilians and helping Al Qaeda recruitment drive by creating more Muslim widows and orphans. We should be working in coalition with other international crime fighting organizations like Interpol and working with our allies in Europe and around the world rather than thumb our nose at them and infer that they are irrelevant. You can't fight an invisible enemy by dropping bombs and hoping that kills a few of them. You have to work in a concentrated, covert effort to infiltrate the enemy from within and reveal their locations, tactics, leaders, etc. This is a long drawn out war (war on terrorism) but it can't be done through overt means. It's not logical.

Part of Islam's beef with us is that we support dictatorial regimes in the Middle East that we trade with like Saudi Arabia. It's no coincidence that most of the individuals responsible for 9/11 were Saudis. Also they don't want to be exposed to our media. I don't see what's wrong with trading only goods that meet with their approval. We can sell them cars and computers, but the media can be left out. This will actually create a black market where the people who want our media will pay extra for it and fund the anti-fundamentalist movements that forbid it. The change in regime can come from within that way rather than our getting involved directly which is costly in both lives and money. We can actually make money by building up their media black market.

By the way, I am neither blind or stupid, nor is anyone else who simply disagrees with your perspective and opinion. Please leave the personal insults at the door when you come to debate. That's not the way it's done.

ILLOGICAL!!!!

Islamists hate us because we buy oil from a regime that put in place the Islamists philosophy?!?!?!?!

Give me a break.

IT IS AN EXCUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
24thcenstfan
Member Avatar
Something Wicked This Fae Comes
I know you guys are in the middle of a debate, but I wanted to add my condolences to the family and emphasize how disgusting I find this act. The evil that some people are capable of is truly disheartening.


Here is a link to the story: Video Shows Beheading of American in Iraq

They do offer two additional links on the left to photos of Berg and his killers standing behind him, and the video (I am not sure exactly what is on the video).


Btw Dwayne your link doesn't work.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
24thcenstfan
May 11 2004, 05:48 PM
I know you guys are in the middle of a debate, but I wanted to add my condolences to the family and emphasize how disgusting I find this act. The evil that some people are capable of is truly disheartening.


Here is a link to the story: Video Shows Beheading of American in Iraq

They do offer two additional links on the left to photos of Berg and his killers standing behind him, and the video (I am not sure exactly what is on the video).


Btw Dwayne your link doesn't work.

Hmmmm...looks like someone pulled the plug on the video.

:realmad:
:realmad:
:realmad:
:realmad:
:realmad:
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Ok, I've double, triple and quadruple checked - that is the correct URL to the video.

It's official, someone pulled the plug on the video. Probably some scumbag did it in the belief we don't have the right to see the video.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Sgt. Jaggs
Member Avatar
How about a Voyager Movie
Why do I get so upset at this that I want to use nuclear weapons? The thought danced across my mind for.075 seconds which is scarry because I do not believe it would be right to do so for many reasons. Can we simplify this and take the gloves off? Make it us vs them and lets get it on? No more F***ing around.
Give all women and children and civilians a pass out of the area and the SEND IN THE DAISY CUTTERS.
By the way, how in the hell do we ever get out of Iraq? If we can't get out, then lets have it for good. Get all those Goddang Shakes and Geurillas out of there. Check out the AC-130 mpegs (2 of them) if you have file sharing network capability.

We are at war. Rules need to come off the table when both sides can't adhere to them. Funny to me how filling people with HOT LEAD is more humane than a quick vaporizing at ground zero. If you want to ease the suffering of those with radioactive poisoning, you can still fill 'em with hot lead till your hearts content.

Do you see what I mean? I only bring up these points as an observation of the silliness of the whole definition of 'humane'. Humane ended when you went to war, it seems to me.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Here's another link to the video: http://www.ogrish.com/ogrish-dot-com-ameri..._iraq_small.wmv
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Dwayne
May 11 2004, 06:50 PM

I don't know if it is my network, but now this link is having problems too!

Something stinks.

UPDATE
http://www.ogrish.com reports that heavy traffic might prevent viewing.

Disclaimer by Wichita:

I haven't seen the video and I doubt that I can watch it - the story alone sickened me that much. If you choose to click on the link AND agree to the terms of service, be forewarned that the site in question does contain material that is questionable and even prohibited under TOS guidelines.

For those of you who question my consistency in this matter - you are probably right in whatever you are thinking. This story and the one about Hamas members parading the body parts of dead Israeli soldiers has me heartsick tonight.

It's your choice.

Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 06:24 PM
Yes, but the difference is Al Qaeda attacked us.

There is no difference Al Qaeda is a symptom of a much lager problem; if it weren’t them it would be some one else. We need to get to the root of the problem and that is the fact that the model east is unstable. Yes I know war in Iraq has made it more unstable in the short term. But if we play are cards right keep our eye on the ball, and start playing like we are on the same team, we can come out of this with a trophy that will set in motion the eventual settling of the middle east.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Today a family had their loss displayed to the whole world by creatures so foul that no name has been invented to accurately describe them.

Mother weeps or is so shocked by the nature of her loss that sits near emotionless. Do you not think that she asked son to be careful while he was over there, as any mother would. Don’t you think he reassured her that he would be fine, as any loving son would do in that situation? And now, the promise has been broken. The mother cannot turn to anyone to who can make good the promise of her dead child.

Tonight, Nick Berg is not a dead American. He is a newborn, wet and crying on his mother’s chest. He is a toddling child trying to balance himself on the edge of cocktail table before falling down on his diapered rear, a teenager rolling his eyes at parental sage advice. In short Nick Berg is only a memory. The man, the dreams, and the happiness are gone for the Berg family. No assignation of blame will fill the void in the hearts of those he left behind.

Tomorrow, and for all the tomorrows that follow, there will be time to argue the root causes of such brutish actions. Leave the blame and offer the family heart felt sympathy, tonight.

ANOVA
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Dandandat
May 11 2004, 07:04 PM
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 06:24 PM
Yes, but the difference is Al Qaeda attacked us.

There is no difference Al Qaeda is a symptom of a much lager problem; if it weren’t them it would be some one else. We need to get to the root of the problem and that is the fact that the model east is unstable. Yes I know war in Iraq has made it more unstable in the short term. But if we play are cards right keep our eye on the ball, and start playing like we are on the same team, we can come out of this with a trophy that will set in motion the eventual settling of the middle east.

EXACTLY!!!

It absolutely drives me bonkers when leftists just don't get this point.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
:cry:

:realmad:

:angry:

I'm still angered by that video.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Politics and World Events Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Tweet
comments powered by Disqus