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Nick Berg - Rest in Peace
Topic Started: May 11 2004, 02:22 PM (997 Views)
Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
You really think everybody at the peace protests agree on everything? There are lots of different factions on "the left" as there is on "the right". What these groups have in common though, is that they disagree with an unprovoked invasion.

Secondly, what is inferred is the Bush administration is the enemy, not America at large. I doubt anyone at these protests think EVERYONE in America is "the enemy".
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
ImpulseEngine
May 11 2004, 05:29 PM
If they didn't care about their country, they wouldn't care enough to stand up and complain when they believe their country is heading in the wrong direction.

You say this as if it is an absolute. People who hated this country would protest just as hard. People who get their jollies off sticking it to the man would protest just as hard.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 05:31 PM
You really think everybody at the peace protests agree on everything? There are lots of different factions on "the left" as there is on "the right". What these groups have in common though, is that they disagree with an unprovoked invasion.

I would bet a lot of them would disagree with any invasion. unprovoked or other wise.

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Secondly, what is inferred is the Bush administration is the enemy, not America at large.  I doubt anyone at these protests think EVERYONE in America is "the enemy".
At this point into aren’t they the same thing? Bush leaders America we go where he goes. If you think that Bush direction makes him an enemy then Americas direction must make America the enemy (as they are the same)
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Dandandat
May 11 2004, 05:30 PM
So because we are "suppose" to do better its ok to "ignore" everything else?

I agree with you that we are suppose to be better, but I find something wrong with the way every one harps on the little thing the US does, while other more sinister things go on with out even batting an eye.


We are supost to be be purfict while every one else is doing much wrong?

I was explaining why it happens, not supporting the idea that it's ok.

Besides, there IS a public outcry about al Qaeda. Why do you think there is a war on terrorism? Why do you think we're in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
No, the Bush administration is not America at large. Did Hitler represent everybody in Germany? Did Mao represent everyone in China? Stalin in Russia? Hussein in Iraq? Of course not. There's at least half of the United States who disagree with the invasion of Iraq. So no, the ruling body doesn't represent everyone in a nation.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Dandandat
May 11 2004, 05:33 PM
ImpulseEngine
May 11 2004, 05:29 PM
If they didn't care about their country, they wouldn't care enough to stand up and complain when they believe their country is heading in the wrong direction.

You say this as if it is an absolute. People who hated this country would protest just as hard. People who get their jollies off sticking it to the man would protest just as hard.

People who say protestors are unpatriotic say so in the same absolute terms. Why aren't you complaining about them?

You point is taken Dandandat. But the point I'm making is that the vast majority of protestors ARE patriotic. A few may fit your suggested U.S. or Bush haters.

Edit:
Btw, even Bush haters can be patriotic.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
ImpulseEngine
May 11 2004, 05:45 PM
People who say protestors are unpatriotic say so in the same absolute terms.  Why aren't you complaining about them?

I am not complaining, just pointing something out.

And I never agree with those who say that war protesters are un-American.


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No, the Bush administration is not America at large. Did Hitler represent everybody in Germany? 
Maybe not but “Germany” was the enemy wasn’t it - that’s my point.

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There's at least half of the United States who disagree with the invasion of Iraq. So no, the ruling body doesn't represent everyone in a nation.
Bush was elected, he does now hold the power (along with congress - who did vote to go into Iraq) to repersent every one, even if they disagree with him. That is what comes with electing some one to be our political leader. You don’t want him to represent you any more - vote him out.

Regardless - so what that half the US is against this war - we are all still at war. America is still at war. There for if the war is wrong America is wrong. By your logic as long as America splits on ever issues America can never be wrong.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Exactly Impulse. Many of the protestors, I would say the majority of them are very patriotic. They want the best thing for America. They disagree with preemptive strikes, violating international law, lying to the UN, unprovoked invasions, and endless war. They just don't think that kind of foreign policy is good for America. It's called a difference of opinion. Get used to it, you live in a democracy.

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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
:cry:

Have you seen the video?!?!?!?!

It's absolutely and totally disgusting, and this poor man died in a horrible torturous manner. Nothing that happened in that prison even comes close to this.

This is no different than what happened to Daniel Pearl, so this crap that this is in retaliation for abuses at some prison is without merit.

It's just an excuse.

Peace protesters are deluded and illogical, because they think if we just did thing differently that Muslims wouldn't hate America and they blame America for the attacks carried out by this enemy.

What really sickens me further is that the father of Nick Berg blames the American government for what happened to his son.

I maintain that if it were for the leftists spreading doubt about the war, Nick Bergs father would place blame squarely where it belong - Islamists terrorists.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 04:51 PM
Exactly Impulse. Many of the protestors, I would say the majority of them are very patriotic. They want the best thing for America. They disagree with preemptive strikes, violating international law, lying to the UN, unprovoked invasions, and endless war. They just don't think that kind of foreign policy is good for America. It's called a difference of opinion. Get used to it, you live in a democracy.

Yeah, and NAZI's said Jews were evil ... it doesn't make it true.

I don't give a flying F*** what peace protesters say. Their actions speak louder than words.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Look, I don't think there's any doubt that what happened to this gentleman is extremely tragic, but to make blanket statements about millions of people is simply incorrect. Who knows? It's possible if we did do things differently that Islam wouldn't hate us so much. But that's a moot point since we're never going to change how we do things. Now that there's been a terror attack on the U.S. and we're invovled in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 but is causing the deaths of nearly a thousand Americans, our policy toward Islam is unlikely to change.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Dwayne
May 11 2004, 05:55 PM
:cry:

Have you seen the video?!?!?!?!

I thought you didn't want to see it.

Quote:
 
It's absolutely and totally disgusting, and this poor man died in a horrible torturous manner. Nothing that happened in that prison even comes close to this.
I haven't watched it, but no doubt you are right based on what I've heard.

Quote:
 
This is no different than what happened to Daniel Pearl, so this crap that this is in retaliation for abuses at some prison is without merit.

It's just an excuse.
I completely agree.

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Peace protesters are deluded and illogical, because they think if we just did thing differently that Muslims wouldn't hate America and they blame America for the attacks carried out by this enemy.
Some may believe that, but many believe that what we are doing not only doesn't help, but actually makes things worse.

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What really sickens me further is that the father of Nick Berg blames the American government for what happened to his son.
Al Qaeda is to blame. Period. But that doesn't mean there isn't a valid point that the father is making. If we weren't in Iraq and if we weren't abusing prisoners, that particular son might still be alive.

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I maintain that if it were for the leftists spreading doubt about the war, Nick Bergs father would place blame squarely where it belong - Islamists terrorists.
You're entitled to your opinion, but that's what it is.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dwayne
May 11 2004, 05:55 PM
and they blame America for the attacks carried out by this enemy.

Agreed, it only shows further that we me must keep our resolve over this. Showing hesitation will only provoke more of the same.

Quote:
 
This is no different than what happened to Daniel Pearl, so this crap that this is in retaliation for abuses at some prison is without merit.
It's just an excuse.

I agree with this as well, people say now that we have started this war on terror - we have made our selves more of a target. But they fail to realize we where the number one target before the war, you cant get higher then number one.

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Peace protesters are deluded and illogical, because they think if we just did thing differently that Muslims wouldn't hate America
Not all of them, some may just feel that no matter what the consequences we should stick to our ideals and in theory I would agree with this notion - its very enlightened. But in practice it means we may wind up died, and when I look into the eyes of my children I can only say screw enlightenment.

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What really sickens me further is that the father of Nick Berg blames the American government for what happened to his son.
That’s his prerogative, and I doubt the left has anything to do with it. He is in pain, and when one is in pain they try turn to the closet thing for release. This man just finds it easier (because it is) to blame something close to home. Something he can understand and ultimately do something about in his sons name. Is it right or wrong I don’t know - It just is. From what I read, Berg was a contractor and was not sent their – he went voluntarily. There for we can concluded with high certainty that his family had an open mind about the war, and most likely supported it.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Dwayne
May 11 2004, 05:59 PM
Yeah, and NAZI's said Jews were evil ... it doesn't make it true.

I don't give a flying F*** what peace protesters say. Their actions speak louder than words.

This is just pathetic.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
The Sisko
May 11 2004, 06:01 PM
Now that there's been a terror attack on the U.S. and we're invovled in a war that had nothing to do with 9/11

Why does everything have to be linked to 9/11? Ok so al Qaeda got us good, but that does not mean we should turn to revenge or develop tonal vision. There are many enemies in this war, al Qaeda is not the only one.
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