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Just when you think it can't get any worse
Topic Started: May 10 2004, 03:42 PM (354 Views)
ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Report says 70-90 percent of Iraq detainees were arrested by mistake
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Article quote:
Quote:
 
Ill-treatment during capture was frequent and "appeared to go beyond the reasonable, legitimate and proportional use of force", the report said. Such behaviour "seemed to reflect a usual modus operandi by certain CF [coalition forces] battle groups".
See this right here is unacceptable language when you are dealing with such a precarious situation. If the Red Cross is going to make allegations, they need to be specific. We are talking about people’s lives and reputations.

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The report said some coalition military intelligence officers estimated that "between 70 per cent and 90 per cent of the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake".

Again, are they going on the word of certain individuals or did they (the Red Cross) go through and study the circumstances of the arrest of each detainee?


Of course I need more information before I can make a judgment either way about the validity of the report. This is just unsettling either way (whether it is true or false). If it is true, then I have to ask what the heck is really going on over in Iraq with some of our soldiers/policies with dealing with the perceived enemy. If it is false, then the Red Cross needs a good spanking for making such allegations. They need a good spanking regardless for make such sweeping (lacking specificity IMO) statements.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Very good points 24 and I agree with everything you said. I wonder too how the Red Cross report actually reads. We've only seen snippets and quotes out of context.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Arresting someone by mistake is no great crime. It happens all the time in the USA as well as other countries. Is a security force supposed to march into an area an immediately know who is guilty and who is innocent?

There is also the idea of a trial to determine guilt.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
You mean false arrest isn't a crime?
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
If you are arrested, detained, indicted, tried and found not-guilty of something, what crime has taken place?

False arrests happen all the time, that is why we have trials and criminal defense attornees.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
But can't you charge someone with false arrest?
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I don't know, I'll have to consult an attorney. I was just making the point that it is no great war crime and we don't have the Red Cross or whoever in here investigating every incident. I think that we should remember that the Red Cross is an organization of charity and also an organization with a political slant whether by intention or no.

I think wrongful arrest is bad and unfortunate, but when confronted with a crowd of 25 people of which there are a few murderers in their midst, why not bring the lot in for interrogation until you can weed out the bad ones? Better than letting the murderer run loose. As long as they get a fair trial or hearing or whatever. It's not like they are convicted on the spot. You ever been to Mardis Gras?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
No, never been to Mardi Gras, not my kind of scene. But I did find an article on the subject. You're right, arresting someone on suspicion on being the wrong place at the wrong time is not illegal.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm
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Fesarius
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Admiral
I find this entire topic to be extremely arresting. :wow: ;)
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I think that maybe there neeeds to be probable cause or some 'legitamite' reason for them to haul you in. I have never been arrested.
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Data's Cat's Sister
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Commodore
Part of the problem is that it is taking too long. The Iraqs are being arrested and are then not able to see a lawyer or get a trial for too long a time. That is a violation of their human rights.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
We are at war right? I think we should pull out, its obvious that we can’t bet our selves this time. It is Turing into a hopeless cause.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Back at the beginning of the war, several people in the Bush administration said that it would not be a short war, and that we were in it for the long haul. It does not surprise me that this war may go on for years.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
This quote was taken from another thread "War in Iraq" since it follows similar comments Dante made on this thread...

Quote:
 
(Dandandat @ May 11 2004, 09:15 AM)
On the other hand, to day I have come to the realization that we cant win this war, and maybe we ought to stop and pull out now before more lives are lost.  We cant win this war not because we cant beat the enemy but because we cant beat our selves.


24:
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What do you mean Dante? Are you being sarcastic perhaps? If so, we need a special sarcasm smilie for this board.
 

Dante:
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I am not being sarcastic, I am being turthfull, and depressed.

Ok, nothing wrong with that. When you feel like talking about it, will you explain what you mean by “We cant win this war not because we cant beat the enemy but because we cant beat our selves?”

Are you referring to our nitpicking on the boards here or are you referring to the negatives that have been coming out of Iraq recently (prisoner abuse, Red Cross reports, Democrats and Republicans viscously fighting over this whole situation...resulting in our own undoing)?
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