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Nutjobs like Michael Savage; Beware of these types
Topic Started: May 6 2004, 09:42 PM (529 Views)
Intrepid2002
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UNGH!
The Sisko
May 7 2004, 06:44 PM
Although Michael Moore is somewhat abrasive and over the top, like in his Oscar acceptance speech :rotfl: sometimes he doesn't know when to shut up, but I disagree that people don't care what he has to say. His books are best sellers, his documentaries are also big sellers. You think millions of people buy that stuff because they don't care what he has to say?

Bowling for Columbine was funny at times. Moore was using sarcasm touched with humor to get a point across. I would be willing to watch another documentary of his as well as anyone's with an opposing point of view.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Intrepid2002
May 9 2004, 10:06 PM
The Sisko
May 7 2004, 06:44 PM
Although Michael Moore is somewhat abrasive and over the top, like in his Oscar acceptance speech  :rotfl: sometimes he doesn't know when to shut up, but I disagree that people don't care what he has to say.  His books are best sellers, his documentaries are also big sellers.  You think millions of people buy that stuff because they don't care what he has to say?

Bowling for Columbine was funny at times. Moore was using sarcasm touched with humor to get a point across. I would be willing to watch another documentary of his as well as anyone's with an opposing point of view.

And in you estimation, what point would that be?
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
I've NEVER seen a Michael Moore film, but IMO, if he was making jokes about that tragedy, he's a bigtime P.O.S. Makes you wonder why no one in the media rushed to crucify him over that because it was very much un ethical.........
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
He wasn't making jokes about the Columbine tragedy, on the contrary, he was pointing out how tragic it was. The jokes are more of a humorous look at society at large. The cartoon about the history of guns was really funny, but when dealing with serious material, he is serious.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
I don’t care what he has to say, and I will tell you why. I never care what a arrogant self center egomaniac activist has to say no matter their point of view. Its people like him that make the discussion process so dam hard. If you come to the negotiation table already overly offending all the people sitting you will never get your point of view the recognition that it may deserve. It will ultimately cause both sides to push way from each other more than they already are - and that is the wrong direction to go.

So yes Michael Moore is a dick, no matter what he is trying to say.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
If you come to the negotiation table already overly offending all the people sitting you will never get your point of view the recognition that it may deserve.

^^ Kind of like calling people an "Axis of Evil" right?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
The Sisko
May 10 2004, 01:02 PM
If you come to the negotiation table already overly offending all the people sitting you will never get your point of view the recognition that it may deserve.

^^ Kind of like calling people an "Axis of Evil" right?

Correct
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I see your point, Dan, but Moore isn't negotiating with anyone. He's simply putting forth a point of view and adding humor to his perspective on certain parts of our culture. I don't see it as any different than Limbaugh (except of course, Moore wasn't kicked off national TV for saying racist comments) he has a political view that he puts forth, but also adds elements of comedy and entertainment to sometimes lighten the mood. Without it, Bowling for Columbine would've been like watching Schindler's List, audiences leaving the theater depressed and in a daze for hours. Please understand, I'm not trying to defend him. I think he went way way too far in his Oscar acceptance speech. Sometimes he just goes too far and actually pushes some people who generally agree with him away. I know that millions of people care what he has to say, including myself, whether or not any of these people are of any consequence, well, that's pretty debatable. Not sure what is meant by that, but if millions of people are involved, that's pretty significant.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
I know he is not negotiating with any one, I was speaking symbolically. I talking about people of this nation trying to see eye to eye, trying, even though they see the world differently, to stand together and make good policy. People like Moore (not just Moore, and not just form the left) are a huge optical in the way of this. All they succeed in doing is create larger animosity in the divide we find our nation in today. Animosity leads to issues that need to be delta with being left behind because we have to duke it out over crape that doesn’t matter.

Lets take Moore and his movie Bowling for Columbine – fine he had a worth while message about gun control but in his delivery he manages to push away all those who disagree with him on the basses that he is attacking them rather then on the matters of his message. Yes a lot of people agree with him, you included but to be frank he doesn’t need to convince you, as you agree with the message with or with out Moore.

So what happens instead of people having an open dialect about gun control. We get a whole bunch of people upset over the movie and unwilling to even listen.





Quote:
 
Kind of like calling people an "Axis of Evil" right?


Just to point out, the reason I said correct is not that I disagree with Bush using this stance. But because it was not his intention to come to an agreement with these people, he was trying instill a level of certainly that the US would be coming after them. He wasn’t trying to open a dialect with them was trying to make them scarred, and the reat of the world that we where done with negotiations.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I agree, the single biggest problem today in politics other than campaign finance (IMHO) is partisanship. I think most people don't vote because they are sick of politicians arguing endlessly and getting nothing accomplished. (Reminds you of the UN discussion doesn't it?) Unfortunately those on the extremes make a concentrated effort to force thier representatives NOT to compromise. e.g. RINO, Green Party, etc. The very essence of democracy in my opinion is compromise. Half of the country wants this, the other half something else, so we have to go with a half/half solution. Sometimes this doesn't work or translate, but on many issues such as budget, taxes, pork, and other day to day stuff, there needs to be more respect given on both sides. When many professionals disagree, they don't attack each other they simply state: "I disagree with my colleagues' assessment." Maybe I am oversimplifying, but if people saw politicians actually working together instead of against each other, maybe more than half the population would vote. Most people I know who don't vote say they choose not to because they a. feel they don't make any difference and b. don't engage in politics because they're disgusted with it, and don't want any part of it.

Moore could be less confrontational in his work I agree, the Heston interview left a bad taste in my mouth, and the scene at the Oscars just gave pundits another opportunity to bash him. I have to admit though, I thought it was quite amusing. Have you ever seen more uncomfortable people in the same room? Maybe during the investigation into the stain on the dress, but sometimes that's my defense mechanism for discomfort (laughter) so maybe that's my own twisted sense of humor.

The bottom line is though, these political entertainers wouldn't sell as much if they weren't confrontational. Many times they say the things we want to in a fit of frustration, but can't. That's why they're so popular. If they were unconfrontational, they might be boring, and wouldn't last in the reality TV generation.

As for Bush scaring people with potential WMDs, I personally don't think it's the best foreign policy, but I am sure I'm in the minority here on that one.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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The Sisko
May 7 2004, 04:44 PM
Although Michael Moore is somewhat abrasive and over the top, like in his Oscar acceptance speech  :rotfl: sometimes he doesn't know when to shut up, but I disagree that people don't care what he has to say.  His books are best sellers, his documentaries are also big sellers.  You think millions of people buy that stuff because they don't care what he has to say?

I wouldn't call his "documentaries" best sellers. What did Bowling for Columbine make? $22 million, and most of that was in Germany and France.

Michael Moore is a gadfly, who still signs his rants to the newspapers with the location "Flint, Michigan" while he lives in an upper West Side NY penthouse worth over $5 million. He is no more a man of the people than Ross Perot was. He simply loathes capitalism while benefitting from it. That would be a (say it with me, everyone) hypocrite!

Flying back from Cancun on Monday, a guy sitting across the aisle was reading Al Franken's book (I was reading Lone Star Nation). I glanced over and frowned at the title, then went back to mine. He piped up with, "Don't like the title?" I replied with something like, "Franken is just plain wrong, as usual," and went back to my reading. He wouldn't let me be. He said, with one of those condescending tones, "I'll bet you think taxes are too high." That was from left field, wasn't it? I replied with, "Yes, but if you think they are too low, feel free to send in more." He got a bit angry and said something akin to "Unlike the rich, I can't afford to." This coming from a guy sitting in the First Class section of a 757. I looked around and commented "Whatever you say." Puh-leeze. Around this time the flight attendant came by to serve lunch. This guy glared, turned red, and didn't say another word. When we landed, he pushed his way to the door and was first off. (By the way, I used my OnePass miles to upgrade from steerage class) :)
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Kind of like how Limbaugh says we should lock drug users up and throw away the key and then gets caught with enough Vicadin to put out an elephant (no pun intended).
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
How much Vicodin (wasn't it Oxycontin) does it take to knock out an elephant?

Where's the compassion, Sisko? He admitted his mistake, went through rehab, and is drug free?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I'm just saying he's a hypocrite too. Just about everybody is in one way or another.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
With the sole exception of Machiavelli, of course. ;)

Quote:
 
"Yes, but if you think they are too low, feel free to send in more."

Admiral,

Nicely done! I'm pleased that you said that. I have a friend in Taxachusetts who frequently reminds me that we aren't (in his opinion) paying enough in taxes. Whenever I tell him he could send in whatever amount he wishes above and beyond what is required, he whines as well. (BTW, he is neither a Republican or a Democrat.)
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