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Iraq Prison Torture
Topic Started: Apr 30 2004, 10:02 AM (1,642 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
First off monkey boy, don't even begin to think I'm excusing anything those dogfaces did as right or excusable ... it was not.

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So Dwayne , psychological torture is quite OK ?

Words mean things, and you bandy about words like torture and atrocity with little regard to the meaning of those words.

Torture is the causing of severe and excruciating physical or mental pain on a person. For example, burning a person, cutting off a limb or making a person watch a loved one go through such acts.

Making someone masturbate or hold themselves or lay upon another person, while humiliating, is not torture. In fact, masturbation and other quasi-homosexual acts are a regular occurance in just about every prison on the face of this planet.

The forcing of prisoners to masturbate or lay upon other prisoners is abusive. The rape type acts were just that - rape. Rape is close to mental torture, but even forced rape isn't always damaging to the body or even painful - it's more a violation of that persons' human rights and very humiliating.

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Why are you trying to down play the seriousness of these autrocities ?

There you go again.

An atrocity is a noun for something that is atrocious. What those prison guards did was not extremely or exceptionally evil, cruel, monstrous, or abominable. The acts were from people with little or no supervision and carried out, at least according to them, in retaliation for the misbehavior of the prisoners.

Most of these acts shown in those photos were abusive and an abuse of power; the acts were not torture or atrocities. There's only one photo I've seen that is arguably torture and that was the photo of the guy placed on the box with wires attached to his body and the order that if he stepped off the box he'd be shocked. That was only mentally torturious.

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As to woman in the first photo - I don't know how she could show her face in public after what she's been up to. Maybe she is too stupid to appreciate what the world thinks of her - and it's not complimentary.

As far as I know, I haven't seen her face in public.

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I repeat - Rumsfeld and Bush Jr have known about this for several months but have sat on it (hoping it would not see the light of day - at least until after the election - I would guess) - they are ultimately accountable and must be indited and prosecuted over these war crimes.

I have no idea who Bush Jr is.

As far as I'm concerned, you deserve far less respect than you afford the President of the United States.

But anyway, you're full of it. We have this thing in the United States called DUE PROCESS and the CID has a DUTY to create a situation where these soldiers are not prejudged before they get their day in court. The military did inform the world that there was an on-going investigation into this, and at least one person has already been convicted.

No one hid or covered up anything, and you're a scumbag a-hole for suggesting otherwise.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
May 9 2004, 01:22 AM
I repeat - Rumsfeld and Bush Jr have known about this for several months but have sat on it (hoping it would not see the light of day - at least until after the election - I would guess) - they are ultimately accountable and must be indited and prosecuted over these war crimes.

Get serious Somerled, that is as likely as hell freezing over - and rightly so. What war crimes are ether guilty of? As so many have said before why do you call for such drastic measures as these when it comes the Untied States, or even Israel but you give a free pass to the terrorist every time?
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Dwayne
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Dandandat
May 9 2004, 02:03 AM
somerled
May 9 2004, 01:22 AM
I repeat - Rumsfeld and Bush Jr have known about this for several months but have sat on it (hoping it would not see the light of day - at least until after the election - I would guess) - they are ultimately accountable and must be indited and prosecuted over these war crimes.

Get serious Somerled, that is as likely as hell freezing over - and rightly so. What war crimes are ether guilty of? As so many have said before why do you call for such drastic measures as these when it comes the Untied States, or even Israel but you give a free pass to the terrorist every time?

How's this for an answer ... he's one of the terrorists or he's a sympathizer.


If I may, I'd like to relate a little bit of my experieces on the internet ... having been a profuse debater on online forums and message boards since 1996.

I used to spend a lot of time on an MSNBC.com message board, and frequented that message board through the 9-11 attack.

Prior to the attack there was a group of regular posters on both sides of the political aisle whom I had became acquainted. Within a day after the attack, about 15 to 20 new posters came on board and all of these new posters were espousing some very anti-American and anti-Israeli opinions. This was the first time I'd ever heard the theories that Israel was responsible or that no plane actually hit the Pentagon or that Pres. Bush knew about this before hand.

Now I'm not much into conspiracy theories, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of probability to think that there is an organized effort on the internet to sow the seed of doubt and discontent with the citizens of the United States and others fighting on the side of the United States.

In a nutshell, we only lose this battle if we choose to no fight that battle, and I think there is an active effort - especially online - to convince us to not fight that battle.
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ds9074
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Admiral
Dwayne do you think the people of Iraq care much about whether you can technically define this as torture or whether it is abuse.
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Somerled,

Do they teach critical thinking at the Uni's south of the equartor?

Quote:
 
I repeat - Rumsfeld and Bush Jr have known about this for several months but have sat on it (hoping it would not see the light of day


The news and some of the reports were released to the press months ago. Why didn't the media run with this news then? Becuase the modern media is so unintelligent and lazy that they didn't bother to investigate further. This story didn't have legs with anybody including the defence department becuase it was being handled in an open manner.

I have in the past, and will continue to use the term "war crimes" to describe those acts. They are a complete violation of the Geneva Convention.

The soldiers who commited those acts are ultimately responsible for there actions. US miitary training makes a claer distinction between lawful and unlawful orders given to a subordinate and the subbordinates responsiblility.

Unless you have evidence that Rumsfeld knew or should have known about the "War Crimes" before or during the acts, or that he approved of the acts after he found out, your statement the he should be indicted and prosecuted for war crimes does not hold water. Those in the theater of operation that had the responsibility to oversee this prison should be removed from duty and investigated. There should have been some senior enlisted and lower rank officers that knew of these incidents while they were occurring. These people should have to pay.

ANOVA

the anti-somerled
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
ds9074
May 9 2004, 07:05 AM
Dwayne do you think the people of Iraq care much about whether you can technically define this as torture or whether it is abuse.

In fact I do.

Read this: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/172421_iraqreax07.html
or this: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/


Sure, they're not arguing definitions, but there are plenty of Iraqi's - inside and outside of Iraq - who are dumb-founded about this so called scandal.
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fireh8er
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I'm Captain Kirk!
somerled
May 9 2004, 12:22 AM
I repeat - Rumsfeld and Bush Jr have known about this for several months but have sat on it (hoping it would not see the light of day - at least until after the election - I would guess) - they are ultimately accountable and must be indited and prosecuted over these war crimes.

That ain't ever gonna happen! They must have some good pot in Australia.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Anova :
Critical Thinking - you obviously flunked that course or slept through it.

Do they teach it down here? - hell yes - in year 11 and 12 at High School it is drummed into the kids in english and the sciences.

At uni as a one semester subject ? maybe I don't know - maybe in arts and humanities courses as a first year level subject.

What year of uni (college) is it taught over there ?

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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
somerled
May 10 2004, 10:29 AM
Anova :
Critical Thinking - you obviously flunked that course or slept through it.

Let me guess, you slept through that class.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
somerled
May 10 2004, 11:29 AM
Anova :
Critical Thinking - you obviously flunked that course or slept through it.

Do they teach it down here? - hell yes - in year 11 and 12 at High School it is drummed into the kids in english and the sciences.

At uni as a one semester subject ? maybe I don't know - maybe in arts and humanities courses as a first year level subject.

What year of uni (college) is it taught over there ?

:loling: :loling: :loling: :loling: :loling:


Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at the thought of YOU having the GALL to ask Anova if he flunked critical thinking.

Anova is one of the most independant thinkers we have on this board. YOU are the one who falls hook, line, and sinker for PROPAGANDA.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Well, it looks like Britain isn't out of this either. While the Daily Mirror photos may not be valid, Britain has apologized and seems to be acknowledging possible fault in at least 2 cases.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=5094519
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Quote:
 
orry, I couldn't stop laughing at the thought of YOU having the GALL to ask Anova if he flunked critical thinking.


good thing I don't wear hats. My head got a couple of sizes larger reading that. Thanks Minuet.

Sooo. somerled, I see your're not going to adress my accusation, which is that your statement the Rumsfeld "sat on" the information is a falsehood.

Thanks for obsfuscating the point once again

ANOVA

the anti-somerled

BTW. Critical thinking is taught through out a students matriculation. I slept through English, spelling, gramar, and typing.
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
This prisoner abuse stuff is beginning to wear out its welcome. That is all that is on the news, and in the newspaper every day. They don't even touch upScott Peterson, Jack-O or Kobe Bryant as much as they were!
Even while I am eating my breakfast in the hotel lobby, I get to look at tortured human beings pictures on the big screen tv in the hotel lobby. :angry:
Like magic, there are MORE coming soon, to a theatre near you, of even MORE disturbing images. Its like someone thinks its great to string this out for months!
We are sick of the images. Funny how the same hippocrites demanded we stop showing the images of the WTC explosions on 9-11. We were never allowed to see the Americans falling to FRICKIN SPLAT on the pavement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :realmad:

But we get to see Rex the ass-biting dog lay a few on some poor guys legs in an Iraqui prison! :realmad:
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
Not to mention the fact that everyone very conveinently forgot about the Fallugah incident. These people who are crying about the photos are more outraged about this than they ever were about the Fallugah incident. Hell....any way possible to lower morale, and slam Bush. :frust:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
8247
May 10 2004, 07:58 PM
Not to mention the fact that everyone very conveinently forgot about the Fallugah incident. These people who are crying about the photos are more outraged about this than they ever were about the Fallugah incident. Hell....any way possible to lower morale, and slam Bush. :frust:

Outraged about Fallujah!?!?!?

Here's a response about this from a leftist blogger: http://dailykos.com/story/2004/5/8/162859/3152

Here's his response to the Fallujah incident, which he later self-censured, but I archived it before he had the chance to change it: http://united-states-of-earth.com/archive/...the%20Cover.htm
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