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Iraq Prison Torture
Topic Started: Apr 30 2004, 10:02 AM (1,644 Views)
Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
May 5 2004, 10:19 PM
However torture is ?

Torture is... what?
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
somerled
May 5 2004, 09:19 PM
However torture is ?

And what does it say about the culture of the USA's occupying forces when people think this kind of behaviour is OK , and even take happy snaps of themselves in the process ?

What little credibility the USA had in world has evaporated as a result (why else do you think Bush Jr has been compelled to appologise to the world ?).

What you're not hearing, but is in fact quite wide spread, is the outrage amongst Americans. The simple fact is that this is not necessarily something endemic to the American miltary. Hence the reason for the investigation being conducted by the military as soon as this was reported.
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ds9074
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Admiral
It wouldnt matter if this was technically legal, justified and it doesnt matter that this is not as bad a Saddam. We have suffered a major defeat in the battle to win over the trust and confidence of the Iraqis and we need to realise that. We rightly set ourselves high moral standards and so when we fail to live up to them a lot of damage is done.

This is how a father of five was treated by the coalition:
Quote:
 

I had hired a taxi and we were stopped at the main gate of Taji Camp in Baghdad which is under the control of the American troops. It was during Ramadan (November 2003).

They demanded to see my papers, but I didn't have any, so I was arrested and taken to the army headquarters in Fifth District and then to the detention camp at the airport.

I was told they would ask me a few questions and then I'd be released after a couple of days, but nothing happened for three days.

  So they started torturing us. They cut our clothes off with blades

Then, at four in the morning on the third day they called out my number, 13077, and I was taken to Boqa camp in Basra where I thought I'd be tried in an Iraqi court.

But what have I done? I'm not a criminal. I've got five kids and my family didn't even know where I was.

Punished for beating

Then I was taken to Camp One in Abu Ghraib.

They tortured me after I had a fight with an Iraqi working in the camp who was having a relationship with a female soldier.


Haydar says he was forced to masturbate with other prisoners
He was giving us a hard time and we had to beat him up.

So they started torturing us. They cut our clothes off with blades. We were stripped naked, even our underwear was cut off.

Then they ordered us to do things in front of a female soldier.

They told us to masturbate towards this female soldier. But we didn't agree to do it, so they beat us.

How could you do something like that in such circumstances. I was frightened, my whole body was shaking.

Then they put a bag on my head, and I pretended, I made movements like I was masturbating.

Broken jaw

They made us act like dogs, putting leashes around our necks and making us bark. They'd whistle and we'd have to bark like dogs.

They made us stand up and then climb on top of each other, one after the other.

They said they were going to kill us, but in the end they took the bags off our heads and I was surprised to see my friends around me.

They had beat me so hard that they broke my jawbone. Even now I can't eat properly

Later a team of American intelligence officers came to see us.

They asked us what had happened and I told them exactly what I've just told you.

I was taken to court, but on 15 April I was released.



That cannot surely be justified, it is totally against the values the we are supposed to stand for in the "civilised" world.
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Vger_art
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Admiralbill_gomec
May 5 2004, 11:05 PM
Saddam Hussein killed over THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND Iraqis during his era of terror.

That was my question regarding outrage. Where is the rest of the world condemning THOSE atrocities?
I'm sorry admiral, I misunderstood. A little of topic but I want to say I agree with you this is a very valid question. Nobody seemed to care, the governments who really had the power to do something about it (European countries, the USA, China and Russia IMO) never did anything as far as I know. I fear the answer is everybody was too busy importing oil, selling weapons and making a nice profit :angry:

We should ask the same question about the present. There are at least a dozen countries on the african continent alone with dictators violating human rights in the most horrible ways and a death toll in the hundreds of thousands. The "efforts" made here are laughable and IMO it's the same thing over and over: importing oil, selling weapons and making money :realmad:
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Just great! :(

New pictures have surfaced. :angry:
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ds9074
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Admiral
Quote:
 
Nobody seemed to care, the governments who really had the power to do something about it (European countries, the USA, China and Russia IMO) never did anything as far as I know. I fear the answer is everybody was too busy importing oil, selling weapons and making a nice profit


Well the USA and Great Britain did actually do something about Saddams regime. They invaded and took him out.
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Vger_art
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ds9074
May 6 2004, 01:02 PM
Quote:
 
Nobody seemed to care, the governments who really had the power to do something about it (European countries, the USA, China and Russia IMO) never did anything as far as I know. I fear the answer is everybody was too busy importing oil, selling weapons and making a nice profit


Well the USA and Great Britain did actually do something about Saddams regime. They invaded and took him out.

Yes, and it only took 35 years of preperation...
Sorry if I sound a bit cynical but we were talking about his victims 'during his era of terror' since 1968.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
One thing I have to comment on, from an earlier post by Vger_art:

Quote:
 
Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; punched a detainee in the chest so hard that the detainee almost went into cardiac arrest; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick; using military working dogs to ... and in one instance actually biting a detainee;


These were allegations made by detainees, these have not been proven. They have, however, been investigated but there are no conclusions yet.

Here's another thing... at least we are investigating mistreatment. I don't see anyone in the Arab world doing the same, yet no one says a thing about it.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
AB,

The reason people complain about the US is because we've been busy pointing out the faults of the Arab world and claiming moral superiority. It gets a much higher profile when it's not expected of us and when we emphasize that we're above all that.

But it would also be right to demand the same from the Arabs IMO.
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Vger_art
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Admiralbill_gomec
May 6 2004, 02:24 PM
One thing I have to comment on, from an earlier post by Vger_art:

Quote:
 
Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; punched a detainee in the chest so hard that the detainee almost went into cardiac arrest; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick; using military working dogs to ... and in one instance actually biting a detainee;


These were allegations made by detainees, these have not been proven. They have, however, been investigated but there are no conclusions yet.

:huh: These are not allegations made by detainees but the findings of Major General Antonio M. Taguba. Taguba's report was completed late February, "Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating." Also "After the (Article 32) hearing, the presiding investigative officer ruled that there was sufficient evidence to convene a court-martial." At least that's what the article said, you really should read it some day.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Who is General Antonio M. Taguba?
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Adrian
Lieutenant Commander
Another big reason this is a disaster is that it may be the death knell of the last legitimate reason to go into Iraq: to set up a model democracy for the arab world.
Now dictators in the area are point to the torture and saying "Hey, I'm bad. But do you want this type of democracy?". Most of the people would say that they would live with a tyrant if the other alternative was this type of nonsense.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Adrian
May 6 2004, 11:35 PM
Another big reason this is a disaster is that it may be the death knell of the last legitimate reason to go into Iraq: to set up a model democracy for the arab world.
Now dictators in the area are point to the torture and saying "Hey, I'm bad. But do you want this type of democracy?". Most of the people would say that they would live with a tyrant if the other alternative was this type of nonsense.

Another load of Leftist idiocy.

You have no clue what most people would say, and your idiotic drivel reveals the very difference that makes America such a great country and a substantially different country from most any other.

This type of crap happens in other Arab nations on a regular basis, but because of the nature of those regimes, you'll never hear about it, but in the US people are held to account for their actions.

The thing lost on America haters world wide is the fact that the media did not break this story, then forced the military to respond, but the military had been investigating these alligation since November of 2003.

Anyway this isn't torture ... information to be reposted - Wichita
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Vger_art
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To baldly go
Admiralbill_gomec
May 6 2004, 10:08 PM
Who is General Antonio M. Taguba?

This guy
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
Naw, that should only be used by the Oakland (and *not* L.A.) Raiders. ;) :)
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