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| "Homocide" Bombings | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 23 2004, 12:44 PM (692 Views) | |
| 24thcenstfan | Apr 24 2004, 10:47 PM Post #16 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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A better question would be…do you Somerled somehow think that desperation justifies the killing of innocents? We aren’t talking about the targeting of military facilities in retribution for any real or perceived oppression by the Israeli government. We are talking about the killing of civilian men, women and children. As far as Arafat is concerned, he is nothing but a quazi/former/terrorist/terrorist sympathizer himself, and while most of "his people" are living in dire circumstances he is not…nor is his wife (living it up in France safe and sound the last I heard). Arafat's motivations are suspect and always will be. |
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| Swidden | Apr 24 2004, 11:29 PM Post #17 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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A couple notable definitions. Basic, non-legal system source.
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 24 2004, 11:51 PM Post #18 |
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UberAdmiral
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Are economic circumstances ANY EXCUSE to blow yourself and a crowd of innocents to smithereens? No. I don't give a rat's rectum whether these people are rich or poor, there is no excuse for this HOMICIDE! |
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| somerled | Apr 25 2004, 04:17 AM Post #19 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Yes Bill , we all know. The world is either black or white to you. Swidden: Exactly
Do the bombers regard what they are a doing as murder ? I do not know. What does it take in a person's life experiences and circumstances to compell a person who ordinarily would be peace loving, law abiding , friendly and hospitable to become a human bomb intent on killing or maiming as many people as possible ? |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 25 2004, 08:17 AM Post #20 |
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UberAdmiral
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No Somerled, RIGHT AND WRONG. Is there something wrong with that, or do you see too many shades of gray? You leftists will justify anything, won't you? |
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| doctortobe | Apr 25 2004, 02:04 PM Post #21 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Somerland, it does not take much to compel people to do what you want them to do. Humans, like wolves, have a pack mentality. If there is an influencial leader in power, we are geared mentally to follow them. To emphasize my point, I would like to tell you about a psychological experiment done some time ago. In this experiment, a group of random people were taken. They were put in a room that had a one-way mirror that allowed them to see into an adjoining room where an elderly man was strapped into a chair. The man had a number of electrodes strapped to him and there was a box in the enclosed room with a button and a dial that went numerically from 1-10. The electrodes strapped to the man weren't real, and the man himself was an actor that would react to the amount of "shock" he received with an appropriate level of "pain". When the subjects were situated in the booth, a man in a white lab coat would tell them to set the dial to "1" and push the button. The actor would wince slightly. This would continue up through the number scale. The actor would give more and more painful reactions. From wincing at 1 and 2, he started yelling at 3 and 4. At 5 and 6, he began struggling to free himself and screaming for help. At 7 and 8, the man was shrieking in agony. And at 9 and 10, he slumped over and showed no response to repeated pressings of the button. If they showed any signs of stopping, the man in the white coat would command them to continue. Almost all the subjects continued the subject until 7 or 8. Many continued up to 10. Only a couple stopped the experiment despite the "scientists'" urgings. These people were from all walks of life. However, all responded to an authority figure that their culture viewed as somebody whos advice should be followed. So as you can see, economic prosperity has little or no affect on one's ability to be controlled. This experiment has been played out in numerous dictatorships. Take Nazi Germany for example. Do you seriously believe that a whole nation of people believe that a whole race of people should be hunted down and exterminated? Of course there was a minority that did, but the fact that they were the authority in that nation compelled Germans to follow their lead. The fact that the Jews were a frequent scapegoat merely made it easier. The same thing is happening in Palestine today. Authority figures such as Arafat and terrorist leaders are able to compell Palistinians to strap bombs to themselves and go out and murder innocent civilians. You may think this is hogwash, but it can be proven by looking at your life. If a police officer in the middle of an intersection holds his hand up as you drive towards him, why do you stop? Obviously there is little that he can do to you to force you to stop, but he is able to control your actions by mere force of authority alone. Being able to manipulate the pack mentality of the human mind is the key aspect of being in a position of power. |
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| Swidden | Apr 25 2004, 06:49 PM Post #22 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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Well, in the case of many of these people that strap bomb vests to themselves it usually involves those who convince them that there is a reward in Paradise for them by doing this. A corruption of Islamic teachings. They go through an indoctirnation period as they are prepared to carry out such acts. So, clearly (to me), there is something of a disconnect in these folks to begin with. Severe depression perhaps, that others who are not willing to blow themselves up are willing to exploit. No one here is saying that some of these people don't have a tough row to hoe, but that the method is not a legitimate form of combat. If they are really looking follow in the footsteps of Mohammed, then they would be better off raising a full on army and going for a stand-up fight. Why is that not happening? Probably because the majority, even if they don't like us, would prefer a diplomatic solution and an end to all the killing on both sides. |
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| Minuet | Apr 25 2004, 09:27 PM Post #23 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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One thing I would like to add to this argument is that there are millions of people in the world who live in much more dire straits then the Arabs in the occupied territories. I wonder why the millions of people in Africa and South America who have starved in famines and are poor beyond belief are not commiting mass suicide to end thier agony. People cling to life whenever they can unless they are mentally ill or are being coerced. In the case of Arab homicide bombers I would say they are being coerced by the promise of glory (and 40 virgins) in heaven. It is the teachings of thier clerics, not thier economic status, that is creating this situation. |
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| Swidden | Apr 25 2004, 11:20 PM Post #24 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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Only 40? I thought it was 72, or have they had to cut down due to so many bombers willing to take up the cause? Maybe they might have to begin a draft...
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| somerled | Apr 26 2004, 05:08 AM Post #25 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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OK - what do they promise the female human bombs ? (Obviously 40 virgins are of no interest to them - a gay islamics are not common (??)).
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| Minuet | Apr 26 2004, 09:05 AM Post #26 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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(sarcasm) Oh gee. That's a really good counter argument to my comments. Lets completely ignore the comments I made about people in other countries that are worse off (/sarcasm) |
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| Swidden | Apr 26 2004, 11:06 AM Post #27 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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^^^ Well, I'm not ignoring your additional, more substantive comments. It's just difficult to argue with logic... |
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| Minuet | Apr 26 2004, 11:18 AM Post #28 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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Swidden, I didn't think you were ignoring anything. I thought your comments about the number of virgins promised actually highlighted my points. There's nothing wrong with bringing a bit a levity in. However, I felt Somerled's comments were meant to show that I couldn't possibly be right because the female bombers were not promised the same thing that the male bombers were promised. This is a spurious argument as obviously the female bombers were promised some other luxury in the afterlife. I don't feel I should have to list every bit of rhetoric from the clerics, my point was made. |
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| somerled | Apr 27 2004, 12:13 AM Post #29 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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The question I asked was
So why do these people continue acting this way ? |
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| Hoss | Apr 27 2004, 07:16 AM Post #30 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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Why would somebody naturally be peace loving, law abiding , friendly and hospitable? This is what you imply with your question. I think that people in general are naturally self-centered, greedy, violent and manipulative. I think family and civilization bring people to realize that more can be achieved by cooperation in civilization. There is also the natural human emmotion of love to appeal to. We are animals as well as civilized human beings. So anyway, I question the premise on which you question was layed. |
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