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Another extrajudicial killing by the IDF; Another to come ?
Topic Started: Apr 17 2004, 10:19 PM (1,820 Views)
Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
somerled
Apr 25 2004, 03:20 PM
Wichita and Bill :
I will have a look and find some (since you want me to), but only if the board search engine is turned back on.

Quote:
 
The error returned was:

Sorry, the administrator has taken the search engine offline for the moment. Please try again later
(which one ?)

But then perhaps there is a reason why it is offline. I'm guessing some time is required to do that for one reason or another (I am positive I read them here).




The reason that is is offline is because it has never been online. As has been oft-discussed before the InvisionFree Administrator has not enabled it. I have no control over that function.

Quote:
 
Otherwise I have better things to do than reading hundreds of archived posts to find some examples and will not look otherwise (it is not that important to me).


So you made it up? If there were recent examples - as you indicated - they shouldn't be that hard to find. :rolleyes:
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
Apr 25 2004, 04:33 AM
Bill and Dan:
If to disagree and say so is to sow discontent - then I am guilty of sowing discontent. I am in very good company  - as there are a great many people who are also disturbed about these and share my disquiet and disgust, many of whom protest.

Where did I say they were being linched ? a freudian slip on your part perhaps.

Since when did whether of not I have been to the USA since 911 have anything to with it ?
How is that even remotely relevant ?

If the more outspoken members of this site are an indication of American sensibilities and attitudes then they would have to be careful not to criticise Bush Jr or USA's foreign policy or the Israelis, even more so it they weren't born in the USA.
Isn't that called "racial profiling" and I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.

somerled,

I don’t know what you are discussing with every one else. But to me you said positively that the reason “my” friend (some one you have never meat, who lives in a place you have never been) thinks the way I said he does is because he is afraid. I tell you that’s not true, and yet you still believe it to be true. This is a prime example of how you have your head in the sand when some one gives you a bit of information that contradicts what you think you. Great arguing skills. If this information is not important they why did you ask ANOVA if he has ever spoken to an Islamic person, or if he even know one?

If you wish to live in your little world thats fine with me, but please dont try to teach me about mine.


(Wichita @ Apr 25 2004
02:18 PM)

Quote:
 
 
Otherwise I have better things to do than reading hundreds of archived posts to find some examples and will not look otherwise (it is not that important to me).

So you made it up? If there were recent examples - as you indicated - they shouldn't be that hard to find.


Whatch out, next when he cant find them, he will accusing this board of some right wing conspiracy where we went and deleted all the contents he thinks he read.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
somerled
Apr 25 2004, 01:33 AM
If the more outspoken members of this site are an indication of American sensibilities and attitudes then they would have to be careful not to criticise Bush Jr or USA's foreign policy or the Israelis, even more so it they weren't born in the USA.
Isn't that called "racial profiling" and I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.

Somerled,

The only person that I can think of that posted anything approaching being overtly anti-Islamic/Arab/Palestinan would be Mr Bastard. He got in trouble for it and no longer posts here. He has been gone for months now. Of those that are regulars here, I cannot think of a one off hand that has been as you describe. Some might very well hold a strong negative opinion of Fundamental Islamic Terrorist groups, but that is not an outright bias towards followers of Islam. A subtle but siginificant difference and one that is easily misinterpreted.

As Wichita pointed out the Search feature has never been enabled by Invision Admin. Given the nature of some of our debates this may be either a good or a bad thing. I personally would not care to have something I said previously brought back and re-presented out of context :ugh:, but I'd happily deal with it if the function were available.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
somerled
Apr 24 2004, 11:12 PM
You do not have to be antisemetic to be disgusted by the tactics of the IDF and of settlers tactics arround their illegal settlements.


I would like to point out for the second time that you are not being accused of anti-semitism because you believe Israel is doing the wrong thing. At least 3 other posters that I can think of off hand have been against Israeli policy and I have not felt the need to accuse any of them of anti-semitism.

Try going back over this entire thread and reading it with a critical eye and maybe you will figure out why you are the only one here being singled out as an anti-semite. :banghead:

Stop using the idiotic argument that you are being accused of anti-semitism only because you are against Israeli policy. It is an outright lie, and you are only using it to deflect the real issues being brought to the forefront. :realmad:
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Re : search provision
OK . I accept that , recomment that it should eventually be activated.

Re : posts
I am sure they are there and will eventually locate them , I am certain I have from time to time read them here (SISTERTREK) . I will not however spend a lot of time (that I could use doing more productive things) looking for these. It is not that important after all - I am not the one who has their knickers in a knot.

I remember MrBarredBastard's posts, I am sure there have been some since.

Added ===>

Here is what I have found starting at start and moving forward in time - here are a sample : (I didn't want to name the people but here they are, you can check they exist yourself)

Ischmitty 6-9-2003
Quote:
 
By the way Desainte, I think if you ask most people where the hatred towards muslims comes from, 9/11 would be the answer given most.


Anova 5-9-2003
Quote:
 
Let the so called Palistinians (Israe;is have as much claim to that title) make an exodus to the to the promised land (the paradise of Martyrs)


Bill 26-9-2003
Quote:
 
I think Mr. B posted earlier about "breaking eggs," right?

It wouldn't be too hard to enlist the assistance of both Russia and China... nations that also have "Islam problems."

What am I talking about? Tactical nuclear weapons. Both the US and Russia have neutron-type weapons as well, which minimize fallout. It would not be very bloody, at least from one side's standpoint.


Anova 5-9-2003
Quote:
 
appearence both here and abroad is, that muslims are willing to share a watered down version of thier belif with nonbeleivers, but any one who questions the moral basis for thier belief is to be threatened and shouted down


Anova 5-9-2003
Quote:
 
Islam can probably better be compared to Nazism than White racism.
.
.
Islams history, culture, docterine and actions indicate that this is the case. Your anecdotal case of having friends does not not render Islam innocent any more than me citing the existence of peaceful KKK memebers (hypothetical group at best ) to suggest that it is not the Klan but certain individuals within it are responible for racism.
.
.
Seems to me that EVIL is codified and institutionalized in Islamic countries


Bill 27-10-2003
Quote:
 
Test and see if our neutron bomb arsenal works properly by using one  (on Islamic capitals inferred)


Bill 26-9-2003
Quote:
 
it is time to level one of their cities, like that one. Round up the men and teen boys, evacuate the females, and completely obliterate the town. Leave no two bricks connected, burn everything. Erase it from the next series of maps.
(backed down later when pointed out that he inferred raising the city in the sense of total war and had inferred anniliated the male population)


Anova 5-9-2003
Quote:
 
From the "Let us win your hearts and mind or I'll burn your f*****g huts down" school of diplomacy

Are we burning the males when we burn the biuldings, Thereby saving a ,match? Or are we doing a public execution infront of the women., There by saaving us the time and enrgy to issue a warning to other cities?


Anova 5-9-2003
Quote:
 
The religion itself is the issue the Koran preaches jihad, the Koran and the sharia (laws of islam)preach the subjugation of non-muslims. The hadith (islamic traditions) preach intolerance towards nonbelivers.


I'm sure there are more but I am not prepared to spend any more time on a largely pointless search (1/2 hour was too much time) as I know the people above will close ranks and will endeavour to sugar coat the above quotes and doubtless will claim I am siting them out of context , or I have some unsavoury political or discriminatory or worse motive.)

There seems to be a strong (vindicative) anti-islamic (even hatred) undertone in the responses of just a few members, I've noticed it, and if I have, then others will have also even if they do not feel inclined to become involved. This undertone is colouring people's responses with regards to the Israel/Palestinian conflict , and the on going war in Iraq.

As to further discussion wrt this matter - I am no longer interested ( unless something interesting is posted in response and I refuse to respond to personal attacks ).
Afterall - resorting to personal attacks are the result of not being able to produce a convincing counter-argument - ie if you can't discredit an argument or case , attack the person who has said it on a personal level in the hope they will back down. A personal attack proves nothing.
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bonja
Commodore
somerled-Wichita asked for links, not quotes.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Shouldn't be hard for her to locate them , I have given the poster and date, they are all from this forum.

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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
somerled
Apr 26 2004, 07:25 AM
I'm sure there are more but I am not prepared to spend any more time on a largely pointless search (1/2 hour was too much time) as I know the people above will close ranks and will endeavour to sugar coat the above quotes and doubtless will claim I am siting them out of context , or I have some unsavoury political or discriminatory or worse motive.)

There seems to be a strong (vindicative) anti-islamic (even hatred) undertone in the responses of just a few members, I've noticed it, and if I have, then others will have also even if they do not feel inclined to become involved. This undertone is colouring people's responses with regards to the Israel/Palestinian conflict , and the on going war in Iraq.

As to further discussion wrt this matter - I am no longer interested ( unless something interesting is posted in response and I refuse to respond to personal attacks ).
Afterall - resorting to personal attacks are the result of not being able to produce a convincing counter-argument - ie if you can't discredit an argument or case , attack the person who has said it on a personal level in the hope they will back down. A personal attack proves nothing.

Given that you DID quote them out of context, I would say that is a fair accusation to make. The dates you posted are also interesting. Some of Anova's comments were in response to those of others you posted, but you have them listed as being made before the comments to which he was responding. Also, ALL of Anova's comments were from the day he registered - not the day that they were made necessarily.

All of which is why I said LINKS, not quotes. Given that you had to have had the link in order to get the quote and given that you have given links before so we all know that you know HOW to do them, it is a fair assumption that you don't want to give the links for some reason. What is it you are afraid of, I wonder. :chin:

Further, based on the comments you chose to quote, I would take it that you believe that disagreeing with someone is the same as defaming them. Is it fair to judge your comments by the same standards that you judge others?

Quote:
 
It is not that important after all - I am not the one who has their knickers in a knot.


No, actually you ARE the one with your knickers in a knot.

Before a single person responded to your comments, you posted 3 paragraphs to defend yourself - and not by defending your position, but by launching a preemptive attack on others.





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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
Apr 26 2004, 03:25 AM
As to further discussion wrt this matter - I am no longer interested ( unless something interesting is posted in response and I refuse to respond to personal attacks ).
Afterall - resorting to personal attacks are the result of not being able to produce a convincing counter-argument - ie if you can't discredit an argument or case , attack the person who has said it on a personal level in the hope they will back down. A personal attack proves nothing.

I have something to add, let us assume for the moment you are correct about these people and their statements. They are two Americans, out of the 40+ active American posters here. So how can you take these two out of 40 and say they are indicative to the hole of the US? take the blinders off my friend.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
wichita :
I did (grab the wrong dates) , oops . My appologies for not following your request to the letter.

Not prepared to search for them again to get the posted dates, I'm sure you have a means of doing this since you have administrator rights and you have the quotes.
Is not that important.


Dan:
I appreciate that it seems only a few regulars are responsible, I am not inferring everyone holds these views ie
Quote:
 
undertone in the responses of just a few members
.
Do they realise they are coming across this way ? I'm not sure.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Funny, none of the comments attributed to me would be considered "racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples".

Mine are about how to PROSECUTE A WAR. Do you understand the concept? War kills people and breaks things.

All of these are out of context as well. Are we sure about those dates? They don't seem to sync with anything.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
somerled
Apr 26 2004, 03:25 AM
As to further discussion wrt this matter - I am no longer interested ( unless something interesting is posted in response and I refuse to respond to personal attacks ).
Afterall - resorting to personal attacks are the result of not being able to produce a convincing counter-argument - ie if you can't discredit an argument or case , attack the person who has said it on a personal level in the hope they will back down. A personal attack proves nothing.

Hypocrite! :realmad:

I can cite examples from this very thread where you launched a personal attack on me by discrediting my arguments as biased by being too close to the subject. I suppose blaming my religion for my point of view was much easier then actually debating my points. All I can say is that you have some nerve telling others that they can't use the same tactic you use.

And I might add that I personally have not made any anti Muslim remarks ever on this board. (And you haven't quoted me in your list) Pretty good for someone who is supposed to be the most biased one here. Wish I could say the same for you and Judaism. Would you like me to quote some of your remarks?

I could actually start with an anti-Canadian remark you made (and no fair arguing it's taken out of context - if it's fair for you to quote out of context then it is fair for me to do the same)

Quote:
 
I have nothing in particular against Americans, any more than I have anything against Canadians (even if they happen to be somewhat odd or strange - must have something to do with the long cold winters).


Now on to anti-semitic comments

Quote:
 
So why are so few people in the USA ( < 2% of 293 million ) so influential in USA international policy making (does this have something to do with the geographic location of USA's jewish communities ) or their accumulated wealth (are they disproportionately wealthy and powerful cf the rest of the USA's population) or is something else coming into play ?


In response to challenges of this statement the best you could come up with was this

Quote:
 
My question implied influence out of proportion to their numbers. (Not control, though there are some who think american jewry actually control the Whitehouse - I don't accept that contention.)


What BS. Influence is control when it comes to politics. You can't say that someone has one without the other. And I have yet to see any PROOF that Jews do have influence out of proportion. I, on the other hand, have shown a number of reasons why the US is pro Israel that have nothing to do with Jewish influence.

And how about your response to this comment:

Quote:
 
You have probably heard of the stereotype of Jews being rich and greedy


Your response

Quote:
 
Well - yes - that's an urban myth (mostly)


Note the emphasis that I (and others on this board) have put on the word mostly. That word completely negated your other words. It is disgusting in this day and age that you could think that it might be slightly true.

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
somerled
Apr 26 2004, 09:28 AM
Not prepared to search for them again to get the posted dates, I'm sure you have a means of doing this since you have administrator rights and you have the quotes.
Is not that important.


Another crock of s***

As usually you are totally unprepared to actually follow up your false accusations with real facts :realmad:

You are a coward
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Geeze Somerled, you got me.

Quote:
 
Anova 5-9-2003

QUOTE 
Let the so called Palistinians (Israe;is have as much claim to that title) make an exodus to the to the promised land (the paradise of Martyrs)


Where's the rest of this one. I believe I was referring only to those e Arabs of the occupied terratories that wish to seek martyrdom while bombing innocent Israeli civilians. I still hold this view. If certain Arabs wish to find paradise while using violence, I'm all for giveing them a helping hand. Especially if we can do so without them hitting their target.

Quote:
 

appearence both here and abroad is, that muslims are willing to share a watered down version of thier belif with nonbeleivers, but any one who questions the moral basis for thier belief is to be threatened and shouted down


Still holds true. When the truth about Islamic law reaches western ears, Muslim members of the audience of shouted down the speaker. Think about the fatwas issued against juornalists and authors. Tha Arab world has a hard time with free speech. This is cutural, political, and religious. As I argued with both Dante and Swidden, the problem is systemic and will nor abate until there is a Islamic reformation.

Quote:
 
Islam can probably better be compared to Nazism than White racism.
.
.
Islams history, culture, docterine and actions indicate that this is the case. Your anecdotal case of having friends does not not render Islam innocent any more than me citing the existence of peaceful KKK memebers (hypothetical group at best ) to suggest that it is not the Klan but certain individuals within it are responible for racism.
.
.
Seems to me that EVIL is codified and institutionalized in Islamic countries


Refute that one. from Pakistan to Egypt and malaysia. Islamic law, subjegates women. reduces nonbelivers to the rank of second class citizens and threatens violence against those who would question it.

Quote:
 
Anova 5-9-2003

QUOTE 
From the "Let us win your hearts and mind or I'll burn your f*****g huts down" school of diplomacy

Are we burning the males when we burn the biuldings, Thereby saving a ,match? Or are we doing a public execution infront of the women., There by saaving us the time and enrgy to issue a warning to other cities?



Wow, this one is a stretch, notice the question marks you little toad? I was asking the Skipper for clarification on a statement he made about fallujah. He denied that his intended to infer that Falujah should be destroyed with it citizens. I believe him. I was not suggesting that this should be doctrine. Way out of context sparky.


Quote:
 
QUOTE 
The religion itself is the issue the Koran preaches jihad, the Koran and the sharia (laws of islam)preach the subjugation of non-muslims. The hadith (islamic traditions) preach intolerance towards nonbelivers.


Once again, a statement of fact. This is why:
the Suadi government can kill anyone who converts to a different religion
It is illegal for a nonmuslim to testify against a muslim in pakistan.
It is illegal to biuld a new church (not mosque) in pakistan and egypt.

These are not the acts of tyranical states, this is the Koran in practice.

If being anti islamic means being against an intolerant and dangerous philosophy, then I am guilty. If I proclaimed that those who believed or praticed hedonism were a danger to society would you accuse me of bieng biggotted? Why then, when a belief or a philosophy manifest itself as a religion, is it considered intolerant to point out the inconsitenceies with the claims (that Islam is peacful and tolerant) and actions (see the above legal standards)


I am not against a persons our groups belief system unless it threatens our existence. WE are in a jihad wether the west wishes to admit it or not. This does not actions against Muslims without eveidence of wrongdoing. All persons are granted equal protection under our laws. I do question the mindless drivel that pronounces Islam a being as peaseful as modern christianity.

Most modern nations are post-christian. Most Islamic nations suffer from a Medieval mindset. Somthing not seen not widely understood in the west.

ANOVA
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Anyone else notice that Somerled changes the topic when he is refuted?
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