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Another extrajudicial killing by the IDF; Another to come ?
Topic Started: Apr 17 2004, 10:19 PM (1,821 Views)
somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
I hope so.

I have nothing personal to gain (at least directly - though we all have somthing to gain indirectly I would hazard to say), and I am not intimately associated with jews or palestinians (or their allies or brethren or their faiths), though I am friends with some jews and also some islamic people and regularly socialise and talk socially with them - so I get to hear both sides.

Can you say the same ?
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
But you can sow dissent, which is what you are trying to do with your anti-American AND anti-Israeli posts.
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Quote:
 
though I am friends with some jews and also some islamic people and regularly socialise and talk socially with them - so I get to hear both sides.


Quote:
 
Can you say the same ?


Yes I can. Want me to name them?

Geeze, Somerled, what are you saying? "I'm not Anti Semitic, some of my best friends are jews."?

Not a convincing argument. Given that the ethnic stereotypes are "mostly" urban myhths in your view.

Besides your statement is meaningless unless your muslim aquaintances are supporters of Hamas and Hesbollah. We are talking about attacks against terrorists who deserve no due process, we are not talking about the world islamic community. Unless, that is, you are saying all muslims want the destruction of Israel.

ANOVA
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
You do not have to be antisemetic to be disgusted by the tactics of the IDF and of settlers tactics arround their illegal settlements.

Nor do you have to anti-American to think the current cast of idiots in the Whitehouse are reckless and dangerous, and untruthful, and immoral. (Bush Jr's and Rumsfeld's doctrine is particularly disgusting and dangerous.)

Anova :
My jewish and islamic (Malaysians, Singaporians, Pakestanis) friends and acquaintances and classmates also find the behaviour of the IDF appalling, and are sympathetic towards the Palestinians. As to whever they support Hamas or Hesbollah , I've never asked (I'm not interested), and they have never volunteered it.
I guess they wouldn't either because if the current Federal government found out they would be arrested and deported. (Being prescribed organisations.)

Have you ever taken the time to talk with an islamic person about this ?

Do you even know any ?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
Apr 24 2004, 11:12 PM
Have you ever taken the time to talk with an islamic person about this ?

I have, my best friend in this whole world is Islamic, he hates the tactics of the terrorist groups as he believes they them selves are what is keeping the innocent Palestinians down (not the Israelis), and he cringes ever time he hears people call them freedom fighters. He also thinks that Israel is doing the right thing. He often says that if some Islamic people came into his neighborhood and started to blow them selves up he would call for much worse action on them then what the Israelis do now. He finds their actions reserved toward the terrorist groups in the face of what they do to Israel.

His whole family thinks the same way and his father is highly active member of the Islamic communities here in NY. He helps organize rallies and the like on large scales. I have been to a few my self, the people there are often worm and friendly toward me.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
I guess he has to watch his p's and q's in the States since 911, and has to be careful not to seem even the least bit sympathetic. Did he use the same language before 911 ?





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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
Apr 24 2004, 11:37 PM
I guess he has to watch his p's and q's in the States since 911, and has to be careful not to seem even the least bit sympathetic. Did he use the same language before 911 ?

what the hell are you talking about somerled? Have you even been to the states since 911? have you been here at all?

No one in NY is lynching Islamic people. No one has to mind their P's and Q's.

And yes he said and acted the same way before and after 911, in fact he was more made about these facts after 911.

You know somerled I believe what these people say about you is true. I like how you ask a question that you believe will give you the upper hand, and when it back fires on you, you pull this out of your ass.

I have been friends with this guy (and his family) all my memorably life they have not change one bit since 911
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
somerled
Apr 24 2004, 08:12 PM
My jewish and islamic (Malaysians, Singaporians, Pakestanis) friends and acquaintances and classmates also find the behaviour of the IDF appalling, and are sympathetic towards the Palestinians. As to whever they support Hamas or Hesbollah , I've never asked (I'm not interested), and they have never volunteered it.
I guess they wouldn't either because if the current Federal government found out they would be arrested and deported. (Being prescribed organisations.)

These people you know see fit to condemn the actions of the IDF and the West Bank settlers, but have at no time made any similar remarks condemning the actions of terrorist groups such a Hamas or Hezbollah? I find that apalling. Have they even heard the other side of the story?

somerled
 
I've never asked (I'm not interested)


They are apparently quite interested in one side of the story, why would you not seek to learn their perspective on the other side in the interest of balance?
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Dandandat
Apr 24 2004, 10:50 PM
what the hell are you talking about somerled? Have you even been to the states since 911? have you been here at all?


I doubt it.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Swidden:
What I said was
Quote:
 
As to whever they support Hamas or Hesbollah , I've never asked (I'm not interested), and they have never volunteered it.

that is I am not particularly interested in their political leanings and I don''t think they are associated with Hamas or Hesbollah, not being Palestinians.

Anymore than I care what your political affilitations are.

Quote:
 
These people you know see fit to condemn the actions of the IDF and the West Bank settlers, but have at no time made any similar remarks condemning the actions of terrorist groups such a Hamas or Hezbollah
well - no , they are also very disturbed by attacks on civilians and the bombings.

I have never said that I support these attacks, however I am objective enough to be able to understand why these people might feel compelled to take these kinds of actions.

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why would you not seek to learn their perspective on the other side in the interest of balance
I do, but I am not (easily) convinced by emotional responses and quotes from clearly very biassed politically motivated propogandaful sources.

Bill and Dan:
If to disagree and say so is to sow discontent - then I am guilty of sowing discontent. I am in very good company - as there are a great many people who are also disturbed about these and share my disquiet and disgust, many of whom protest.

Where did I say they were being linched ? a freudian slip on your part perhaps.

Since when did whether of not I have been to the USA since 911 have anything to with it ?
How is that even remotely relevant ?

If the more outspoken members of this site are an indication of American sensibilities and attitudes then they would have to be careful not to criticise Bush Jr or USA's foreign policy or the Israelis, even more so it they weren't born in the USA.
Isn't that called "racial profiling" and I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
somerled
Apr 25 2004, 08:33 AM
If the more outspoken members of this site are an indication of American sensibilities and attitudes then they would have to be careful not to criticise Bush Jr or USA's foreign policy or the Israelis, even more so it they weren't born in the USA.
Isn't that called "racial profiling" and I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.

Well, I DON'T know who they are ... :realmad: :realmad:

You just said:

Quote:
 
I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.


I want you to post the link to those comments that you find to be "racially defamatory about arabic and islamic peoples" that have been posted on this site. I do not want to see your "quotes" of those comments - I want links to them.

You have made the charge - PROVE IT!



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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Quote:
 
Isn't that called "racial profiling" and I've seen plenty of racially defamatory comments about arabic and islamic peoples posted here (some very recently) and the people who posted them know who they are.


No. Racial profiling is singling someone out because of their race. Once again you have it wrong.

Saying you disagree with something is called disagreement. Posting opinion pieces time and time again about supposed failures in Iraq, American foreign policy, et cetera, is attempting to sow dissent.

I've never seen any racially defamatory comments from anyone here either. Put your money where your mouth is, Somerled.
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Quote:
 
Have you ever taken the time to talk with an islamic person about this ?

Do you even know any ?
Quote:
 


Yes, I do.

MY point was that you seem to draw your athourity from the fact you happen to know some muslims.

You condemn all of Israel, when the government is investigating the "allegations"

You are still an anti semite in my book.

Now for the two muslims I do know well enough to ask

The first, a Muslim, from Dearborn MI. Lebonese American. Appalled by the actions of both sides.

the second, fromom the Balkans. Thinks Arabs are a bunch of nutjobs. Believes that when the Koran speaks of infidels it is talking about muslims who fail to keep the faith. He's waiting until the truth comes out until he passes judgement. thinks the whole thing is a mess. Too much propaganda on both side.

Guess what, you dirty word. If the US government had effectively thwarted the attacks of 9/11, you and your ilk would have cried that we were using racial profiling to detain the terrorists. They were, after all, all arab muslims. Imagine the flack we would have recieved about that from you and AI. I have nothing against proper profiling as long as the government can keep the profile confidential. If word leaks about the target profile, the ACLU will scream and the terrorists will change mules.


ANOVA
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Wichita and Bill :
I will have a look and find some (since you want me to), but only if the board search engine is turned back on.

Quote:
 
The error returned was:

Sorry, the administrator has taken the search engine offline for the moment. Please try again later
(which one ?)

But then perhaps there is a reason why it is offline. I'm guessing some time is required to do that for one reason or another (I am positive I read them here).

Otherwise I have better things to do than reading hundreds of archived posts to find some examples and will not look otherwise (it is not that important to me).

Bill :
So the only opinion pieces you'd allow if you ran this board would those that strickly complied with your particular slant on the world and only those that did not challenge your particular views, opinions and values , or your paradymes ? That would make it pretty boring here.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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I prefer news to opinion. I know, though, that the truth can be hard to take for some people. :rotfl:
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