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Another extrajudicial killing by the IDF; Another to come ?
Topic Started: Apr 17 2004, 10:19 PM (1,822 Views)
Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
... that 90+ percent of academics are far-leftists ...

Yes, it makes for an interesting work environment when one is a conservative. I work in such an environment--and it is quite challenging trying to defend one's convictions.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
Apr 22 2004, 09:15 AM
Bill - are you rejecting his comments without actually reviewing it . That's very arrogent .

No, I am rejecting the comments because you, a notorious anti-Bush, anti-American type, would post them. I don't have to be arrogant to call you out for what you are... just accurate... Ian.
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

somerled
Apr 22 2004, 12:31 AM
Proton:
Do you have anything relevant to add to this discussion or is it that you just wanted to earn some more browny points ?

Well I sped read through a large portion, any more detail and I would drift into unconsciousness.


You puzzle me sometimes Spongebath, some times you offer a very leftish view, but when it comes to anti-americanism you sound positively right wing.


From the post with the pie chart:
Quote:
 
So why are so few people in the USA ( < 2% of 293 million ) so influential in USA international policy making (does this have something to do with the geographic location of USA's jewish communities ) or their accumulated wealth (are they disproportionately wealthy and powerful cf the rest of the USA's population) or is something else coming into play ?


You make it sound like americas close ties with Israel are based on race alone.
As an Objective observer who is somewhat disinterested in the topic, it seems plain to me that they have ties with Israel as it is the only stable, (tending towards) democratic nation in that region.

Getting a foothold in the region, selling weapons, gathering intelligence and good ole fashion trade would seem far more likely reasons for US government officials to take Israels side than for the reason that they have a second cousin, twice removed who lives in Tel Aviv.

Whats the alternative?, get cosy with Iran or Lebanon.
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Yo-Yo
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Captain
So you think 6 million in almost all of north america is exceedingly greater than 5 million in a land smaller than half of west virginia? I think there is a huge sigfinicance in this detail. THat is because of assimilation. It was found in a recent study (i'll have to find it again) that North America loses half a million Jews to asiimilation every 15-20 years. For such a small and spread out nation that is disasterious.

Also for Jews and Politics the reason why there are many Jews in high places i would surmiseis first our religion promots intellectualism. did you know that in the medieval period most jews were literate as opposed to the masses of peasants? This is one of the major factors that enabled Judiasm to out live all the great empires of history. Also Jew have often had to wrok with hardship through out history and have learned to wokr hard in life. But dont get all worked up, just because there are some influencial jews in the US does NOT mean they are CONTROLLING the US policy or etc. :huh:

You have probably heard of the stereotype of Jews being rich and greedy. This affects many people's view on Jews today (whether they realize it or not). This stemmed from the medieval period where work laws and resrtictions were placed on Jews that forced them to work on the sabbath. Instead of violating the sabbath the Jews dominated the medieval financial system which enables flexibility. Ie. they became bankers and tax-collector. Now you can imagine the bad light this put them in with the masses.

Also considure this from what Minuets said. Most Jews considure the survival of the state of Israel vital to the survival of the Jewish nation. When most people think of Germany mentioned by Minuet they think of the dark, corrupt and evil society. Well it was around WWII but prior to that it WAS the most civilized nation in the world! Oh yes! That is what made the rise of nazism there such a shock, but it happened. And so many jews feel the important of a homeland incase ths ever happens again (*cough* *cough* France *cough*). Even though they may not live in israel (note however that Israel experiences an extremely high level of Jewish immegration especially from USA and Canada) but only support with money, they will have a safe haven to run to if thing really turn bad.

Another thing to considure in relation to the importance of Israel. you said your self there are less than 14 million Jews in the world. Now with 6 billion peopel on the earth. That makes Judaism comprise of less than 0.003% of the world.

Since you like pie charts so much:
Posted Image

Now considure that a large portion of the Islamic world (without try to offend all Muslims) is indeed hostile to Israel and Jews in general. And there is also a good portion of Christanity wokring hard to convert Jews to Christ. So with 3 billion to 13 million (215:1) a central place of Jewish religious freedom and growth is vital to the Jewish nation.

Something to considure
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Yo Yo:
Quote:
 
So you think 6 million in almost all of north america is exceedingly greater than 5 million in a land smaller than half of west virginia? I think there is a huge sigfinicance in this detail. THat is because of assimilation. It was found in a recent study (i'll have to find it again) that North America loses half a million Jews to asiimilation every 15-20 years. For such a small and spread out nation that is disasterious.
why do you believe that happens ?
Is the birthrate of North American jewry that low ?


Quote:
 
Also for Jews and Politics the reason why there are many Jews in high places i would surmiseis first our religion promots intellectualism. did you know that in the medieval period most jews were literate as opposed to the masses of peasants? This is one of the major factors that enabled Judiasm to out live all the great empires of history.

I had read about medeival european jewry literacy being higher than the peasantry and nobility of the time - a reason they were feared by so many at the time do you think ?

Quote:
 
But dont get all worked up, just because there are some influencial jews in the US does NOT mean they are CONTROLLING the US policy or etc.

My question implied influence out of proportion to their numbers. (Not control, though there are some who think american jewry actually control the Whitehouse - I don't accept that contention.)

Quote:
 
You have probably heard of the stereotype of Jews being rich and greedy.
Well - yes - that's an urban myth (mostly) , I know several jewish people locally and am good friends with them - they are not greedy and the ones I know are not what you'd call rich.
It like the stereotype of scots as being all penny pinching misers.

Having a Jewish homeland (where much symbolism and a large proportion of your ethnic group is concentrated) is ethnically crazy / perhaps suicidal - what happens if for some reason the population were wiped out by a war, or a pandemic , a natural disaster ? I appreciate that Israel is close to the heart of all jews, but is it worth the risk and resentment it generates ?
It is a very small country afterall (Tiny in fact) , that could spell the essential extinction of jews. Surely the ethnic group is better off being widely dispersed.

33% of the world being labelled as christian is a surprise - I would have expected a larger proportion of Hindism, Buddism, Sikhism and Confucism based on the huge populations of India, Pakestan and China.
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Minuet
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somerled
Apr 22 2004, 09:49 AM
Minuet :

Point taken on the German connection - however that was an aburration.


Every time someone makes a decent point that you can't argue you spout bullshit about it being an abberation or just happening once.

When are you going to grow up enough to admit you could be wrong about something.

And you call Admiralbill arrogant.
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Minuet
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somerled
Apr 22 2004, 02:36 PM
Quote:
 
You have probably heard of the stereotype of Jews being rich and greedy.
Well - yes - that's an urban myth (mostly) , I know several jewish people locally and am good friends with them - they are not greedy and the ones I know are not what you'd call rich.

You know what? You can make all the comments in the world about Jews being some of your best friends. But putting the word "mostly" in brackets shows where you are really coming from.

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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Still:

Can any nation, guarentee the existance of the Jews in perpetuity? No. only a Zionist state can do that. Europe is notorious for its anti-semitism. With the recent increase in middle eastern immigrants acts against Jews have increased. Countires like France do little to protect Jews and there properties, given that the Arab quartet in Paris is more vocal and has more political clout then the Jewish citizens of that city.

If one democratic state can turn a blind eye to the root cuases of hatred to assuage the feelings of a self proclaimed victims group. In this case, new Arab immigrants. Can it happen one day in America or Canada? Yes, I think it can.

Therefore, only the existence of a zionist state can guatenetee the safety of the Jews against there existential enemies, both present and future.


BTW. Arab immigrants are threatening to vandalize a statue in Derby England if the town tries to refurbish the arberetum to its past glory. Why? THe statue is of a Boar which the Araba immigrants find insulting. With this level of intolerence, and the ability of the modern left to use the word intolerent to label anyone who opposes the Arab initiative, how long before such groups use there new found power to usurp certain liberites of other groups.

ANOVA
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet :
:ZZZZZ: Lighten up. You really are becoming way too upset.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Have you ever considered that she might have a vested interest?
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Bill :
I know she is too close to the issue to view it objectively and without becoming emotional.

I respect that (and her views - even if I happen to disagree on many issues), you will notice I have refrained from responding in kind - as that would pointless and would only upset her and others more.
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Yo-Yo
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Captain
I am giving the same views a Minuet, do you think me as unobjective as well? :huh:
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Yo Yo :
You need to ask that of yourself , it is easy if you associate yourself intimitly with a group or their problems to loose your objectivity and to become emotionally engaged with one side or another.
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Minuet
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Somerled, my being close to the issue has nothing to do with the fact that you choose to give some credence to a stereotype by using the word mostly in your comments.

I interpreted that as meaning that you found some element of truth in the stereotype. Maybe you are the one who is being biased by anti-semitic views that you don't even consciously realize that you hold.

And as usual you have tried to deflect credible arguments by discrediting the person giving them. Arguing that Germany was an abberation is a very weak argument and does nothing to show that it couldn't happen here.
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Yo-Yo
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I beleive i can honestly say i have tried my best to be objective. Though i have a 'religious bias' i have looked into BOTH sides of the conflict, by research and fisrt hand experience.

The question is with all your opinions :frust: , can you say the same?
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