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Iraqi Nuclear Gear Found in Europe
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Topic Started: Apr 15 2004, 03:40 PM (471 Views)
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Dwayne
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Apr 15 2004, 03:40 PM
Post #1
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Now are the anti-war peacenik appeasers going to maintain that the threat from Saddam was overblown or non-existant?
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Iraqi Nuclear Gear Found in EuropeBy Colum Lynch Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, April 15, 2004; Page A22 UNITED NATIONS, April 14 -- Large amounts of nuclear-related equipment, some of it contaminated, and a small number of missile engines have been smuggled out of Iraq for recycling in European scrap yards, according to the head of the United Nations' nuclear watchdog and other U.N. diplomats. Mohammed ElBaradei, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, warned the U.N. Security Council in a letter that U.N. satellite photos have detected "the extensive removal of equipment and, in some instances, removal of entire buildings" from sites that had been subject to U.N. monitoring before the U.S.-led war against Iraq.
ElBaradei said an IAEA investigation "indicates that large quantities of scrap, some of it contaminated, have been transferred out of Iraq, from sites monitored by the IAEA." He said that he has informed the United States about the discovery and is awaiting "clarification."
After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, U.N. inspectors discovered, inventoried and destroyed most of the equipment used in Iraq's nuclear weapons program. But they left large amounts of nuclear equipment and facilities in Iraq intact and "under seal," including debris from the Osirak reactor that was bombed by Israel in 1981. That debris and the buildings are radioactively contaminated.
The U.N. nuclear agency has found no evidence yet that the exported materials are being sold to arms dealers or to countries suspected of developing nuclear weapons. But ElBaradei voiced concern that the loss of the materials could pose a proliferation threat and could complicate efforts to reach a conclusive assessment of the history of Iraq's nuclear program.
"It is not clear whether the removal of these items has been the result of looting activities in the aftermath of the recent war in Iraq, or as part of systematic efforts" to clean up contaminated nuclear sites in Iraq, ElBaradei wrote. "In any event these activities may have a significant impact on the agency's continuity of knowledge of Iraq's remaining nuclear-related capabilities and raise concern with regards to the proliferation risk associated with dual use material and equipment disappearing to unknown destinations."
Richard Grenell, a spokesman for the U.S. mission to the United Nations, said, "We have seen the reports and are obviously concerned, and as we told the IAEA we are looking into the matter."
ElBaradei's letter is dated April 11 and was circulated privately this week among members of the Security Council.
Evidence of the illicit import of nuclear-related material surfaced in January after a small quantity of "yellowcake" uranium oxide was discovered in a shipment of scrap metal at Rotterdam's harbor. The company that purchased the shipment, Jewometaal, detected radioactive material in the container and informed the Dutch government, according to the Associated Press. A spokesman for the company told the news agency that a Jordanian scrap dealer who sent the shipment believed the yellowcake came from Iraq.
ElBaradei did not identify the European countries where the materials were discovered. But U.N. and European officials confirmed that IAEA inspectors traveled to Jewometaal's scrap yard to run tests on the yellowcake. The search turned up missile engines and vessels used in fermentation processes that were subject to U.N. monitoring. The U.N. Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission informed the council about the finds in a letter, according to diplomats. The IAEA, meanwhile, ordered up satellite images to assess conditions at Iraq's former nuclear weapons sites. A senior U.N. official said they discovered that two buildings at one former site had vanished and that several scrap piles contained weapons-related materials were also missing. "In Europe, stainless steel goes for $1,500 a ton," the official said. "And that is worth transporting for the purpose of recycling."
Just another nail in the coffin of the arguments from the "Iraq was not a threat" appeasement crowd.
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Dwayne
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Apr 15 2004, 05:49 PM
Post #2
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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I noticed the Washington Post makes you register to see the article. To get around this, click on this link to Google.com.
You should see a line that says, "If the URL is valid, try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13416-2004Apr14.html"
Just click on the link from the Google page and then the Washington Post should allow you access to the page.
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Swidden
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Apr 15 2004, 10:13 PM
Post #3
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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Of course you realize some will say that this was apparently part of the Iraqi effort to dismantle their Nuclear Program, just as they claimed. However, it does suggest (to me) that it is not so much a case of complying with UNSC resolutions as much as it is an attempt to dispose of evidence...
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Dwayne
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Apr 15 2004, 10:25 PM
Post #4
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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- Swidden
- Apr 15 2004, 10:13 PM
Of course you realize some will say that this was apparently part of the Iraqi effort to dismantle their Nuclear Program, just as they claimed. However, it does suggest (to me) that it is not so much a case of complying with UNSC resolutions as much as it is an attempt to dispose of evidence...
Exactly right.
Actually, it's being spun already. Some media types are trying to say that it was looted after the war started, and are suggesting that America didn't do enough to stop the looting.
The peacenick Islamofascist appeasing boot-lickers are all running around making the claim that Iraq never had yellowcake and that Iraq was complying with resolutions, but the fact remains that Iraq wasn't supposed to have any of this stuff.
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somerled
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Apr 16 2004, 12:28 AM
Post #5
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Can't open it, my proxy servor keeps tossing it.
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In Europe, stainless steel goes for $1,500 a ton," the official said. "And that is worth transporting for the purpose of recycling
is a pretty good reason why people would grab anything made out stainless steel (including medical equipment perhaps such as Xray machines which contain radiative materials) , especially during the frenzy of looting that took place while the invasion was in progress.
Lets see if anything develops from the inspections of the material before jumping the gun once again.
As to the Yellowcake : - Quote:
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The yellowcake in the shipment was natural uranium ore which .. came from a known mine in Iraq that was active before the 1991 Gulf War see Probe Casts Doubt on Iraq Nuclear Security - that's not exactly a smoking gun or even evidence of an active WMD (Nuclear Weapons in particular program) at the time of the invasion.
And as to ever being able to investigate PROPERLY and OBJECTIVELY - Quote:
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The IAEA has been unable to investigate, monitor or protect Iraqi nuclear materials since the U.S. invaded the country in March 2003. The United States has refused to allow the IAEA or other U.N. weapons inspectors into the country, claiming that the coalition has taken over responsibility for illict weapons searches. Unless the USA changes it's tune - that can't happen and it's own weapons searches have found exactly ZIP.
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anon_persona
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Apr 16 2004, 07:32 AM
Post #6
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Lieutenant Junior Grade
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"Unless the USA changes it's tune - that can't happen and it's own weapons searches have found exactly ZIP."
How can you say that? The very source you cite says talks about missile engines - weapons. There are tons and tons of weapons being found there, plenty of which violate UN conventions.
Additionally, what is the purpose of finding these weapons anyway? It was not the bulk of the otherwise overwhelming legal or ethical argument to invade Iraq.
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somerled
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Apr 16 2004, 02:07 PM
Post #7
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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anon_persona: I'm not inclined waste more time on this topic - take a good look at the historical posts on similar topics since September.
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Surok
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Apr 16 2004, 03:20 PM
Post #8
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Ensign
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- Quote:
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The peacenick Islamofascist appeasing boot-lickers are all running around making the claim that Iraq never had yellowcake and that Iraq was complying with resolutions, but the fact remains that Iraq wasn't supposed to have any of this stuff.
But we apparently already knew about this stuff. The article itself says
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After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, U.N. inspectors discovered, inventoried and destroyed most of the equipment used in Iraq's nuclear weapons program. But they left large amounts of nuclear equipment and facilities in Iraq intact and "under seal," including debris from the Osirak reactor that was bombed by Israel in 1981. That debris and the buildings are radioactively contaminated.
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The U.N. nuclear agency has found no evidence yet that the exported materials are being sold to arms dealers or to countries suspected of developing nuclear weapons. But ElBaradei voiced concern that the loss of the materials could pose a proliferation threat and could complicate efforts to reach a conclusive assessment of the history of Iraq's nuclear program.
So if the stuff is now sold as scrap, and not as part of a "Proliferation Program," and was already known to exist, where is the imminent threat (or should I just ass-ume one?)
BTW, you would have loved the 60's. You sound like an old NY Daily News editirial.
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Dwayne
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Apr 16 2004, 03:31 PM
Post #9
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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- somerled
- Apr 16 2004, 12:28 AM
Can't open it, my proxy servor keeps tossing it. - Quote:
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In Europe, stainless steel goes for $1,500 a ton," the official said. "And that is worth transporting for the purpose of recycling
is a pretty good reason why people would grab anything made out stainless steel (including medical equipment perhaps such as Xray machines which contain radiative materials) , especially during the frenzy of looting that took place while the invasion was in progress. Lets see if anything develops from the inspections of the material before jumping the gun once again. As to the Yellowcake : - Quote:
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The yellowcake in the shipment was natural uranium ore which .. came from a known mine in Iraq that was active before the 1991 Gulf War
see Probe Casts Doubt on Iraq Nuclear Security - that's not exactly a smoking gun or even evidence of an active WMD (Nuclear Weapons in particular program) at the time of the invasion. And as to ever being able to investigate PROPERLY and OBJECTIVELY - Quote:
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The IAEA has been unable to investigate, monitor or protect Iraqi nuclear materials since the U.S. invaded the country in March 2003. The United States has refused to allow the IAEA or other U.N. weapons inspectors into the country, claiming that the coalition has taken over responsibility for illict weapons searches.
Unless the USA changes it's tune - that can't happen and it's own weapons searches have found exactly ZIP.
Your opinion is without logic or merit.
If the yellowcake found was from an old Iraq mine, it categorically proves that Iraq was still in violation of UNSC resolutions and THAT is what this is all about.
The US signed onto those resolutions in good faith, but the UN was not enforcing those resolutions in good faith. Pres. Bush asked the UN to enforce those resolutions, but declared that if the UN would not, the US and allies would enforce them.
Well, the US is a nation of go-getters and mavericks and in America's old west, when the town leaders were corrupt or without resolve, it sometimes fell to the brave few to do the right thing, even in the face of over whelming opposition and obstacles. The movie High Noon is an excellent allegory for this.
As for your opinion that we've not found zip - you couldn't be further from the truth. Actually it's a statement made out of ignorance or an out right lie made out of political expediency. Based on some of your other opinions, I'd opine you're an out right liar - a deceiver.
People like you rely heavily upon the ISG assessment made by David Kay in Oct. 2, 2003. In this assessment it is concluded by the naysayers that after a 3 month investigation, no WMD's were found. But that's not exactly what David Kay said.
Let's examine his words.
- David Kay
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We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:
- A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.
- A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.
- Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.
- New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.
- Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).
- A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.
- Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.
- Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km - well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.
- Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.
In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts, we have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documentary and computer evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work. The pattern of these efforts to erase evidence - hard drives destroyed, specific files burned, equipment cleaned of all traces of use - are ones of deliberate, rather than random, acts. For example,
- On 10 July 2003 an ISG team exploited the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) Headquarters in Baghdad. The basement of the main building contained an archive of documents situated on well-organized rows of metal shelving. The basement suffered no fire damage despite the total destruction of the upper floors from coalition air strikes. Upon arrival the exploitation team encountered small piles of ash where individual documents or binders of documents were intentionally destroyed. Computer hard drives had been deliberately destroyed. Computers would have had financial value to a random looter; their destruction, rather than removal for resale or reuse, indicates a targeted effort to prevent Coalition forces from gaining access to their contents.
- All IIS laboratories visited by IIS exploitation teams have been clearly sanitized, including removal of much equipment, shredding and burning of documents, and even the removal of nameplates from office doors.
- Although much of the deliberate destruction and sanitization of documents and records probably occurred during the height of OIF combat operations, indications of significant continuing destruction efforts have been found after the end of major combat operations, including entry in May 2003 of the locked gated vaults of the Ba'ath party intelligence building in Baghdad and highly selective destruction of computer hard drives and data storage equipment along with the burning of a small number of specific binders that appear to have contained financial and intelligence records, and in July 2003 a site exploitation team at the Abu Ghurayb Prison found one pile of the smoldering ashes from documents that was still warm to the touch.
Mr. Kay concluded his report with this...
- David Kay
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I have covered a lot of ground today, much of it highly technical. Although we are resisting drawing conclusions in this first interim report, a number of things have become clearer already as a result of our investigation, among them:
- Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Even those senior officials we have interviewed who claim no direct knowledge of any on-going prohibited activities readily acknowledge that Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to either restart CW production or make available chemical weapons.
- In the delivery systems area there were already well advanced, but undeclared, on-going activities that, if OIF had not intervened, would have resulted in the production of missiles with ranges at least up to 1000 km, well in excess of the UN permitted range of 150 km. These missile activities were supported by a serious clandestine procurement program about which we have much still to learn.
- In the chemical and biological weapons area we have confidence that there were at a minimum clandestine on-going research and development activities that were embedded in the Iraqi Intelligence Service. While we have much yet to learn about the exact work programs and capabilities of these activities, it is already apparent that these undeclared activities would have at a minimum facilitated chemical and biological weapons activities and provided a technically trained cadre.
That's far from zip.
You and your ilk have defended Saddam for years and this is just part and parcel of that. If truth be known you're either an Islamists or a Socialist. I base this on your rhetoric. You mouth their talking points like a well trained monkey.
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Dr. Noah
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Apr 16 2004, 07:57 PM
Post #10
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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I knew it!! It was the French all along!!!
Let's get those wine swilling, cheese eating freaks!!!!
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Swidden
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Apr 16 2004, 08:02 PM
Post #11
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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^^^ Hey, where have you been?
Did ya miss us?
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Dr. Noah
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Apr 16 2004, 08:03 PM
Post #12
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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Yeah, geez, I thought you guys were all mad at me. Nice to be welcomed back.
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Swidden
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Apr 16 2004, 08:07 PM
Post #13
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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You'll be pleased to know that we have a few more posters who lean more to the left. Of course, you know, this has done nothing to stop our rousing games of "Bash the lefty"!
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Dr. Noah
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Apr 16 2004, 08:19 PM
Post #14
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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What? I go away for a couple months and this board turns into a whining forum for those bleeding heart liberal pinkos?
It's time we set these sushi eating chardonnay swilling faggots what for!!!!!!
Who's with me?!?!?!!??
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somerled
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Apr 16 2004, 11:44 PM
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Iraq's hidden weapons did not exist, say reports (source NEW SCIENTIST) .
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