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| A Tipping Point? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 6 2004, 05:22 PM (472 Views) | |
| ds9074 | Apr 6 2004, 05:22 PM Post #1 |
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Admiral
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The events in Iraq look to me like they may be at a tipping point. The anti-democracy groups seem to be pushing at once. If we fail to quell the violence I think there could be civil war. If we succeed we could well weaken this groups and move closer to democracy. Just look at the todays events:
Now we hear there is a major assult on US marines outside Bagdad with 12 marines dead. Over 100 Iraqis are thought to have died in the fighting today. As I say this is crunch time IMHO. I might not have agreed with the basis of the war but were are there now and we have to succeed. |
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| doctortobe | Apr 6 2004, 05:33 PM Post #2 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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I have to say that I am pleased with the events of today. Even though the deaths are to be mourned, the terrorists are playing by our rules. They attacked us while we were dug into a defensive position and we bloodied their nose but good. When they do this, it is only a textbook battledrill to counter their offensive and destroy the attackers. By all means, I hope that this is kept up. Not only will those that oppose democracy get wiped out, those that wish for a free Iraq will know that the Coalition will not abandon them. |
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| ds9074 | Apr 6 2004, 05:37 PM Post #3 |
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Admiral
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I hope your right. Certainly I think its easier for us to tackle gun men in the street than suicide bombers. |
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| Hoss | Apr 6 2004, 05:55 PM Post #4 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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This may be merely the death throws of the resistance. They have really taken a pasting in the last years and this may be their final attempt at making a statement. They know that they are defeated, but probably cannot accept it yet. Al Quaida has also recently been attacked in Pakistan and near the Pakistan border in Afganistan. They are suffering heavy losses and may be trying to draw the US fire into a different region. There is no reason to loose hope. Quite the contrary. All indicators are that we have been wildly successful in Iraq and Afganistan. |
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| doctortobe | Apr 6 2004, 06:00 PM Post #5 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Let's put this in perspective. If, in the Revolutionary War, the Minutemen had stopped using sniper tactics against the British Army and had instead used the standard tactic of lining up and shooting en mass, how do you think the war would have went? The problem we have been having in Iraq is that we are not only an invading force, but the fact that we have no cooperation from the Iraqis means that the tactic of attacking convoys with bombs has been effective. You can't sweep the whole street for an explosive that can be easily hidden in a pile of innoculous rubble. One major source of attacks is the fact that some convoy's and presence patrols did not alter their routes and times. If I see you go by my house, start my clock, and see you go by at the same intervals two or three more times, it is easy for me to set of some sort of trap or ambush to take you out. If you are constantly changing you route however, I don't know where to set the trap. As you probably know, the deaths from attacks on Black Hawks have drastically gone down. The US is starting to learn that a helicopter is like a tank. It will perform wonders in open areas, but in closed settings where there are multiple hiding places, its effectiveness is lessened dramatically. Now that the insurgents are attacking us directly, the Army and Marines are able to use training that we have been using for decades. They have given up their advantage and are now playing by American rules. They can throw themselves at us until doomsday and I can tell you that our kill/loss ratio will be AT LEAST 10:1 in our favor. |
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| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 6 2004, 06:02 PM Post #6 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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God I hope you're right doc. This is an election year and Bush has his deadline for Iraqi sovereignty hand over. They may think the coalition HAS abandoned them. How many troops stay for how long? Don't we still have troops in Bosnia? |
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| doctortobe | Apr 6 2004, 06:13 PM Post #7 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Look at it this way, the Iraqi insurgents have just put a HUGE bullseye on their chest. Once we rid Iraq of the few leaders wanting to overthrow democracy, the rest of the people will fall into line. The problem with Iraq and the majority of Middle Eastern countries is that the people have been living like sheep for years. When one cleric says jump, they say how high. If you can wade through all the doom and gloom of the news reports, you may find that it is mentioned that some Shiite clerics are speaking out against Muqtada al-Sadr. While they oppose him, they refuse to help us track him down. Now, this may seem like a bad thing, but if they choose to stay neutral in the conflict, that means that we have won the battle. The support of fellow Iraqis is VITAL to the insurgents, it is merely a greatly desired plus for our forces. By staying neutral, the Shiite clerics cut the lifeline of the terrorists. The major thing that we need to do now is to be very careful not to have any accidental killings of innocent Iraqis. If a number of these incidents happen, then the neutral clerics will likely shift over to supporting the insurgents. |
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| Dwayne | Apr 6 2004, 10:59 PM Post #8 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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I think the former Ba'athists, the Islamists from Iran in the form of a few of the Shia, and the Jihadists are teaming together. Their objective - I think - is to draw a significant number of American forces into the region and stage a counter attack. Whether the attack at Ramadi was that counter attack, a diversion, or just an objective in a plan - I don't know - but it seems to me that whomever planned the ambush in Fallujah, where the private security officials were killed, most likely realized that we'd respond with a large force contingent. So if they realized this, then don't you think they would have had planned an even larger ambush for American forces or something to that effect? |
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| nztrekkie | Apr 6 2004, 11:54 PM Post #9 |
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Lieutenant
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hi ya 38957 - give my regards to alice and the white rabbit when you see them next ! |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 7 2004, 10:27 AM Post #10 |
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UberAdmiral
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I'll just bet you are rubbing your hands together in glee when you hear about Coalition casualties... |
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| benetil | Apr 7 2004, 11:44 AM Post #11 |
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Unregistered
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I don't know if the current situation is a tipping point or not, but things certainly sound bad. Mission accomplished my butt. The photo (some of today's newspapers) of the soldier carrying the body of the dead soldier in a black bag was so sad. The things we're seeing right now make me wish that President Bush had tried harder to avoid attacking Iraq. I want my government to get out of Iraq right now. Instead we're beginning to hear Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld talk about sending additional US troops. I wish we had never gone. I want our troops out of Afghanistan, Bosnia and the dozens of other places around the world. The madness has to end. |
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| doctortobe | Apr 7 2004, 01:03 PM Post #12 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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There are bound to be casualties in war. To expect that you will not lose men in war is like expecting that you will never get a problem wrong on a test. I really don't think civilians are mentally ready to see body bags on TV every day. A soldier is conditioned to this kind of thing through both experiance and training. What you see as horrible loss of life is actually a very acceptable death toll. If we could have had statistics like these in WWII, the Allied death toll would have plummeted. Once again, I will say that the men who have died will be mourned. But if we pull out now, their deaths will have been in vain. Those four people burned and dragged through the street to be hung? The purpose of that was to send a message that this would be like Somalia. If we back out now, this will be the second time that the public desecration of American soldiers has caused a pullout. What will that mean? It will mean that the terrorists will realize that this tactic seems to work against us and they will use it a LOT more often. |
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| ds9074 | Apr 7 2004, 02:03 PM Post #13 |
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Admiral
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I disagree with you on this. Now we have started this we have to see it through or the situation is going to be a whole lot worse. Part of my objection to the war in Iraq is that the western coalition (USA/UK) may have taken on too much at once. I dont think we have properly sorted out Afganistan and frankly I think that is a big danger to us, we just dont see it. I think that is a bigger danger than containing Saddam for another few years would have been. |
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| ds9074 | Apr 7 2004, 02:16 PM Post #14 |
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Admiral
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If I'm hearing correctly US forces have bombed a Mosque. Now that was a bad move. It doesnt matter who was inside, bombing holy buildings is a sure way to turn a religious population against you. Think back the WW2 with the bombings of Exeter, Coventry and other English Cathedrals. It caused the population to loath the Nazis even more. |
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| doctortobe | Apr 7 2004, 03:03 PM Post #15 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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We did not bomb a mosque we merely used bombs and rockets to breach the outer wall so we could assault the mosque. |
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