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Ted Kennedy's Speech: Treason or disagreement?
Topic Started: Apr 6 2004, 11:18 AM (2,099 Views)
Dandandat
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Time to put something here
ImpulseEngine
Apr 6 2004, 01:00 PM
Dandandat
Apr 6 2004, 12:54 PM
Sorry IE I read your link, and there is not one good example that objective shows how Iraqi it like Vietnam.

As I said to Wichita, they aren't the best examples, but there's enough there to open the door of arguability and that's all that's necessary to remove the accusation of lying. I don't have time to find better links right now. Gotta go take my daughter to a doctor's appointment in a few minutes. Maybe I'll find better ones later tonight. (But I might also use that time to watch DS9.)

Don’t worry about it, I don’t think TK is lying ether. I think like most people who say this, he’s just being stupid. The war in Iraqi is a new type of war and is nothing like anything we have seen before. Its not like Vietnam or WW2 even if I can make comparisons on a small scale between the two (Vietnam or WW2). In the big picture they are so dissimilar its laughable to even mention it.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Admiralbill_gomec
Apr 6 2004, 12:57 PM
I'm surprised Houston's Daily Pravda printed this:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/e...outlook/2487509

The title is, "A soldier assures us: Our progress is amazing"

I wonder how much the bush administration pay JOE ROCHE to write this.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Actually, I think the dissimilarities outweigh the similarities by so much that I wouldn't personally say Iraq is like Vietnam. But then I don't think Ted meant to say they are exactly the same anyway. He is campaigning and I interpret his meaning to be that they have some similar bad points. There are valid arguments for and against that conclusion. That's why I wouldn't call it lying.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
ImpulseEngine
Apr 6 2004, 04:54 PM
Wichita
Apr 6 2004, 12:48 PM
ImpulseEngine
Apr 6 2004, 04:31 PM
Here are some people's thoughts on the Vietnam comparison:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968705899037


Charles' response is explainable, but Fred's ... :no: :no:

I'm not saying that I agree with every last one there, just that there are valid arguments. These probably aren't even the best ones. I chose it because a few points were made neatly for both sides in this single article so it was convenient. I'm sure, if I spend time looking, I can find better ones. But I don't think I need to just to make the point.

Inherent in comparing Iraq to Vietnam successfully is knowing something about Iraq AND Vietnam. Fred didn't appear to know much about either.

Were I to actually comment on this thread :censored: :P
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Wichita,
Feel free to exclude Fred from consideration if it makes you feel better. :)
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Can I exclude Ted, too? He's conveniently overlooking a few points about Vietnam as well. ;)
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Wichita
Apr 6 2004, 01:14 PM
Can I exclude Ted, too? He's conveniently overlooking a few points about Vietnam as well. ;)

Give some people an inch... :P ;)
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
^^^

:D
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Well, I am not about to get into this argument, but wow - both Impulseengine and Admiralbill are familiar with my local newspaper!!!!!!!!!!! :P
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Fesarius
Apr 6 2004, 11:55 AM
I had a lot of respect for JFK and RFK. But, I haven't really respected Ted Kennedy since the reports following Mary Jo Kopechne's death. So, my comments would be undeniably biased.

Finally ... something I can agree with you on.
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Dwayne
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ImpulseEngine
Apr 6 2004, 11:57 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Apr 6 2004, 12:52 PM
Once again, there are differences between exaggeration and outright lying. Kerry/Kennedy crossed the line a few months ago.

A few months ago? I don't know what comments you're referring to exactly, but I'm not aware of any outright lying.

gomec is refering to Ted "hiccup" Kennedy's January 14th, 2004 speech at the Mayflower Hotel.

gomec, I think you'll like some of my response to that old drunk.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Quote:
 
He is campaigning and I interpret his meaning to be that they have some similar bad points.

Please do name those similar bad points.

I'm all eyes (since I have to read it instead of hear it)
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Dwayne
Apr 6 2004, 01:18 PM
ImpulseEngine
Apr 6 2004, 11:57 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Apr 6 2004, 12:52 PM
Once again, there are differences between exaggeration and outright lying. Kerry/Kennedy crossed the line a few months ago.

A few months ago? I don't know what comments you're referring to exactly, but I'm not aware of any outright lying.

gomec is refering to Ted "hiccup" Kennedy's January 14th, 2004 speech at the Mayflower Hotel.

gomec, I think you'll like some of my response to that old drunk.

Just call me "Bill"

Everyone else does...
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
LOL--but don't call him Gomer! ;)
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
No it is not treason. It is flamboyant disagreement. In regards to this being Bush’s Vietnam, that could mean any number of things. He may not be referring strictly about the number of casualties. Kennedy could be referring to the fact that we invaded a sovereign nation, and now we are going to be there militarily for a long time rooting out terrorists/stabilizing the nation (with little end in sight in spite of sovereignty being handed over to the Iraqi gov’t on June 30). A year later and the fighting is still going on…(e.g. Fallujah).

In regards to Bush’s credibility…well how far off is Kennedy on this one? With Bush’s motivations for going into Iraq being called into question, I would say yes Bush has a credibility problem right now. Rice testifying this Thursday is one way the Administration is attempting to regain that credibility.


“Kennedy attacked the administration on the war in Iraq, a war he has said was predicated on a fraud devised to help Republicans in the 2002 and 2004 elections and divert attention from "the administration's deceptions here at home." LINK

Overall, most people know that Kennedy is a bit of a loud mouth. It will be up to Kennedy to back up his statements. If he can’t then everyone will know he is a liar.
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