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| Death of Hamas Leader | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 22 2004, 09:55 AM (1,933 Views) | |
| ds9074 | Mar 22 2004, 09:55 AM Post #1 |
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Admiral
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I have to share the view of the British Government and CONDEM the killing by Israel of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. While he may have been responsible for bomb attacks, his killing is simply going to make the situation a whole lot WORSE. Israel has just increased it security problems and fueled the fires of the Israel/Palestine conflict. As the shadow foreign secretary said, there is no military solution to this problem. The only way it is going to be resolved is through negotiation. This killing makes that even more difficult. Jack Straw, British Foreign Secretary "We understand Israel's paramount needs to defend itself, but we also say for Israel to carry the full support of the international community it needs to do so within the boundaries set by international law. It's been the long-standing position of the British government that such targeted killings, assassinations, are out with international law. "It is very difficult for all countries fighting terrorism to take a measured response in the face of the kind of outrageous terrorism which Israel has suffered. All of us understand that, but a measure of restraint is required and I don't believe Israel will benefit from the fact that this morning an 80-year-old in a wheel chair has been a target of their assassinations." The Palestinian Authority is going to raise this with the security council and I hope there will be a resolution put foward condeming this. I also hope that it passes and that the United States does not feel the need to block any such moves. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Mar 22 2004, 10:47 AM Post #2 |
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UberAdmiral
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If you figure what Hamas' mission is, the destruction of Israel (pushing all Jews into the sea), I can understand why Israel did this. They are fighting a battle for their own survival. Hamas, in retaliation, has now threatened the United States. As a result, I don't think you'll see a condemnation of this action in the UN. I disagree with Jack Straw. You CAN NOT negotiate with terrorists. Negotiation is capitulation. Do you really think that Spain's "surrender" the previous week will do a thing? Israel is not going away, so if Hamas and those other Islamofascist terror groups can't handle that, then ALFA, MIKE, FOXTROT (adios, motherf*****s) to them. Here's what I don't get: At this guy's funeral, a couple of hundred Hamas members were going along with the procession, armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns. Why was no effort made to take them into custody? |
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| ImpulseEngine | Mar 22 2004, 12:51 PM Post #3 |
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Admiral
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DS, I agree. I have always thought the only thing that will bring peace to that region is for both sides to lay down their weapons and negotiate. In reality, there would still be some extremists/terrorists on both sides who would refuse to stop the attacks. But as long as both sides consider those attacks to be unacceptable from either side, they could maintain their peace, negotiate, and fight off the remaining extremists together. |
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| Hoss | Mar 22 2004, 01:17 PM Post #4 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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80-year old and in a wheel chair mean nothing to me. If he is ordering the murder of school age kids and pedestrians at a market utillizing homicide bombers, then the world is better off for his death. Israel has the responsibility to destroy bastards like this at any opportunity. All the outrage by the Palestinian terrorist organizations is bogus, they don't mind killing innocents but they complain Israel kills a militant??? Give me a break. The UN, the rest of the world can whine and complain and tell Israel what it should have done, but the rest of the world isn't subject to the daily threat of terrorist homicide bombers attacking its citizens. Israel would probably have done well to missile attack this bastard's funeral and kill more of the terrorists. Should the USA be attacking Al-Quada and its leaders at every opportunity or capitulating to them to avoid angering them and in hopes of bringing them to peaceful negotiations? Should the British be fighting terrorists in N. Ireland or capitulating to them in hopes that their appeasement will bring peace with the terrorist? Why do we expect Israel to castrate itself in this way? Why do we expect Israel to do something that we would never do? This is really a stupid arguement, Israel should kill every Hamas, PLO, Al aqsa, Islamic Jihad, etc leader it can at any opportunity. Don't let them breath! |
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| ImpulseEngine | Mar 22 2004, 02:23 PM Post #5 |
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Admiral
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There's a large difference between Israel/Palestine and the US/al Queda. In the Israel/Palestine situation, both sides have been guilty of terrorist attacks. In addition, just look at how long the battle has been going on between those two sides. Would you say the practice of war is working in that case? It's time for them to realize that a different approach is necessary. Also, I'm not convinced that negotiating with terrorists should be entirely ruled out even in the case of the U.S. I wouldn't do it as a first action, but my point is this. After all the bombing, man-hunting, arrests, trials, etc., are over there are still going to be some terrorists left no matter what anyone does. Sooner or later, they will just rebuild their network and continue with their attacks. Terrorists are not going to go away until the real source of the problems are addressed. There are some crazy's who no amount of negotiating will satisfy. Because of them, I think the terrorists need to be first whittled down to their weakest. But then it may be time to at least hear out their issues. I don't believe every terrorist is simply insane. |
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| Dandandat | Mar 22 2004, 02:32 PM Post #6 |
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Time to put something here
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What might that be? |
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| Minuet | Mar 22 2004, 03:23 PM Post #7 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation because I can get very worked up about issues involving Israel, but I couldn't let this pass. Please enlighten me by naming a single "terrorist" incident perpetuated by Israel. I will tell you up front that attacking targets like Yassin are not terrorist incidents in my mind. |
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| captain_proton_au | Mar 22 2004, 03:27 PM Post #8 |
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A Robot in Disguise
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What was Israels strategy here?? It has brought worldwide condemnation, he had one foot in the grave , was in a wheelchair and was the spirtual leader of hamas, does anyone here really believe he is solely responsible for planning/authorizing attacks on Israel, there are plenty of people to take his place. What did Israel Hope to achieve? The tit for tat will continue. |
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| 24thcenstfan | Mar 22 2004, 04:01 PM Post #9 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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I have no sympathy for Sheikh Ahmed Yassin just because of his physical condition. If he is able to open his mouth and order homicide bomber attacks on innocents (men, women and children who are just minding their own business, on their way to the market or anywhere else), then this man deserved to have a missile shoved up his a... With that said, the cycle of violence that is now the mainstay between Israel and the Palestinian militants is never going to end...not unless the root causes for this hatred are addressed. Obviously, therein lies the problem. Most of these Palestinian militants want nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel. These most ardent of militants are going to have to be eradicated. It is a sad fact, but the violence will continue to plague the region while these people exist. Once the hardcore militants are dispensed with, then and only then should the process of negotiation (not capitulation) begin between Israel and the Palestinian people (and the remaining dissenters or less violent of the militants). At this point, Israel is going to have to give up something in return (e.g. complete removal of Israeli settlements in certain areas). I am sure there will have to be other give and takes between the two groups. I would bet that what is most desired by the Palestinians is an independent Palestinian state. Once this is achieved, the animosity that has built up over the years would probably start to dissipate. I would hope it would. Btw, I really do hate speaking in terms of eradication when I am talking about another human being. But to me, terrorists are a plague on society, and a peaceful solution is not forthcoming in this situation (there is little hope of finding a non-violent way to deal with these terrorists). |
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| ImpulseEngine | Mar 22 2004, 04:20 PM Post #10 |
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Admiral
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Minuet, You probably know a lot more about the situation over there than I do. I was under the impression that both sides were guilty of things like suicide bombings. In Israel's case, I did not think it was from the actual government, but from extremists. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me. |
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| Minuet | Mar 22 2004, 05:08 PM Post #11 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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Impulse, you are very wrong. There have been a couple of reported cases of attempted terrorist acts by Israelis. They have been prosecuted and incarcerated. There was of course, one successful attack at the tomb of Abraham many years ago. Oh yeah, the guilty party in that case was also put in jail. You see, that is the difference. The Israeli government actively works to prevent terrorism on it's side and has been successful at preventing it. Wish I could say the same for the Palestinians. |
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| Hoss | Mar 22 2004, 05:52 PM Post #12 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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I would add that Israeli attacks are directed at the militants actively engaged in violence, where as the Hamas et. al. attacks are directed at anyone from Sharon down to 5 year old school girls. Yes, there are bystanding Palestinians who get killed and injured as a result of Israeli military action, but one could argue that it is the militants who place these people at risk by cowardly hiding in their midst. There are those who argue that the Zionist used terrorist tactics in the 1940s and before. It is a different discussion, one of history. But todays violence began in the late 1990s and rages to this day. I believe that Israel has been very heavy-handed at times, but they do have reason to act this way in my opinion. The Arab terrorists groups want to see the violence continue, they want to see the hatred of the Jews continue and grow. Here in lies their power. They must keep the cycle of violence alive so that they may continue to have support among the radicals of the Arab world. If it begins to look as though Israel is negotiating for peace or giving in to their demands, they will attack more ardently to keep the war alive. Once their is nothing to fight about, nothing with which to instill hatred in their followers, they will be unnecessary and have no power. This is boldly evident in everything Arafat and Hamas have ever done. |
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| ANOVA | Mar 22 2004, 07:02 PM Post #13 |
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Vice Admiral
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Be careful Minuet much of Israel's early leadership were held to be terrorists by the UN and America. Can't remeber the name of the gut with eye-patch. But he was considered most wanted until Israel was recognized as a state. So one can acurately state that terorism was a weapon used early in the founding of Isreal. Now for my unwavering opinion on the matter. Israel must destroy its exestential enemies wherever they reside. The existence of a zionist state is the only guarentee of Jewish survival. If Israel must annex Gaza and the West Bank, both areas the Jordanians occupied by force, then so be it. As a matter of fact, from now on, I'm referring to Gaza and the West Bank as the Arab Ocuppied Territories of Israel. ANOVA |
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| Minuet | Mar 22 2004, 07:39 PM Post #14 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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The guy with the eyepatch was Moshe Dyan. As 38957 pointed out that was history and we are discussing the current situation. Impulseengine specifically mentioned that he thought Israelis participated in suicide attacks. This is a patently incorrect statement. Even in the 40's the Jewish people did not participate in suicide attacks and as for today, my statements stand. The very few who have tried have been stopped and jailed. I am still waiting for the Palestinians to try and stop a single attack. As for the rest of your comments
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| nztrekkie | Mar 22 2004, 09:00 PM Post #15 |
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Lieutenant
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snap ! I wasn't going to post today, but I thought I would calmly answer your question Minn about the terrorist acts of the Israelis. The three most notable cases of Israeli terrorism that I know of are - 1) the bombing of the King david hotel, location of the British mandate command in Palestine, forget how many killed.... 2) the assassination of Count Bernadote, the UN official sent to mediate between the Palestinians and the jews 3) the butchery at Deir Yassen, where between dozens (Jews) and hundreds (Palestinains) were murdered, according to who you listen to. These terrorist acts involved the future Israeli PM's Begin and Shamir. Sorry, I named three well known and documented events of fact - just search any search engine to read about these terrorist acts. Please. PS : these Israeli terrorist acts occurred decades BEFORE the formation of Hamas, before the formation of Fatah, before the formation of the PLO etc.....and this info has been posted so many times before and it all just gets convieniently forgotten it seeems. PPS : Moshe Dyan was decades after these much earlier Israeli attrocities. The current PM was almost sacked by Golda Meir in the 60's after his own reckless military adventures on Palestinians, which were specifically against govt directives not to do so. |
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