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Harbinger - Official Review Thread; ***Warning Spoilers****
Topic Started: Feb 11 2004, 03:01 PM (570 Views)
ImpulseEngine
Admiral
What do you know, miracles do happen! My local UPN actually aired Enterprise instead of basketball last night! But, alas, THIS episode I could have waited to see... :rolleyes:

In summary:

  • Lots of sexuality/flirting
  • T'Pol showed more emotions than most of the humans
  • More conflict between Hayes and Reed
  • A little bit about a strange alien
So, I found myself wondering throughout the episode, what is the point? I finally got my answer... in the very last line! :rolleyes: So basically I found it to be a wasted hour full of nonsense and commercials until the last 5 seconds. Maybe next week I'll tune in at 8:55...

The best part of the episode: "Think we're dismissed?" I did find that amusing (though not hilarious).

Thought: That alien looked a lot like a Suliban with a different skin texture. The texture could be the result of the experiment he was a part of. He could even walk through walls like the Suliban. Hmm... It is the Suliban that "future guy" works with.

Did anyone actually hear the last line? It sounded like "When the Xindi destroy Earth, my people will ________". I got the idea - fill in the blank with "benefit in some way". But, after repeated replays I just couldn't make out that last word.

The sexuality stuff was just stupid as usual. Hmm, this is the second time a female MACO has been shown enough to have some lines and the second time she is scantily clad. [sarcasm on] Now there's a surprise! [/sarcasm]

Quite a disappointment. :) ;) (1 1/2) out of :) :) :) :) :)

Edit:
Thanks gdog. I guess we were typing at the same time, but you answered my question - "prevail" was the last word.
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gdog243
Rear Admiral
ImpulseEngine
Feb 12 2004, 09:34 AM

Thought: That alien looked a lot like a Suliban with a different skin texture. The texture could be the result of the experiment he was a part of. He could even walk through walls like the Suliban. Hmm... It is the Suliban that "future guy" works with.

Did anyone actually hear the last line? It sounded like "When the Xindi destroy Earth, my people will ________". I got the idea - fill in the blank with "benefit in some way". But, after repeated replays I just couldn't make out that last word.

The sexuality stuff was just stupid as usual. Hmm, this is the second time a female MACO has been shown enough to have some lines and the second time she is scantily clad. [sarcasm] Now there's a surprise! [/sarcasm]

Quite a disappointment. :) ;) (1 1/2) out of :) :) :) :) :)

The last word was "Prevail."

I also had the same thought that the guy was a Suliban. If that were the case, it would really help tie things together with the TCW plot, the Xindi, and the Spheres. Do you think the Suliban created the expanse and that it has something to do with the manipulations of why the Xindi want to attack Earth? I don't think the writers thought that out, but it would be interesting heading into the final episodes of the season.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
gdog243
Feb 12 2004, 12:33 PM
As for the Trip/T'pol/Cole scenes, the previews are really missleading. Other than a kiss that came out of the blue, nothing really happened.

Am I missing something? When T’Pol disrobed in front of Trip, the scene ended and it was the next morning. I concluded that they had sex. This is usually the insinuation when other shows and movies set scenes up this way. And then there was the “morning after” cooky mess hall scene that further implied this. Maybe the ambiguous nature of the scene was intended so that the writers could say that no sex happened?

Did other’s come away thinking there was only intimate contact and no intercourse?

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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
24 the impression that I got was that they had sex. From tidbits I've read various places, the producers/cast are saying that it was no dream or other reset button - they had sex. Maybe what people are confused by is the lack of the "play by play" action ... :shrug: Previews did seem to imply there would be more shown than just the bare butt and a kiss.

BTW, the butt was supposedly NOT Blaylock's - no idea why - she doesn't seem to be shy about such things.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
24,
I thought the same as you about what happened between T'Pol and Trip.

Gdog,
It's certainly possible that the Suliban created the Expanse or that whoever genetically enhanced them created it.

It sounds like the Xindi and humans are both being manipulated by whoever those aliens are so the aliens can benefit. If they are Suliban, I agree that this would fit well with the TCW plot. Since "prevail" was the last word (thanks for clarifying that), the question is "prevail over whom". If the alien is indeed Suliban, then presumably, it's whoever the other race is that the Suliban are fighting with in the future.

The idea that the two races being manipulated by a third race has been discussed a lot in the past on other boards. People had predicted that the humans and the Xindi would eventually be working together for a common cause so this would fit together with that thinking as well.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Wichita
Feb 12 2004, 01:22 PM
24 the impression that I got was that they had sex.  From tidbits I've read various places, the producers/cast are saying that it was no dream or other reset button - they had sex.  Maybe what people are confused by is the lack of the "play by play" action ...  :shrug:  Previews did seem to imply there would be more shown than just the bare butt and a kiss.

BTW, the butt was supposedly NOT Blaylock's - no idea why - she doesn't seem to be shy about such things.

Ok, I gotcha. I was a little confused after reading everyone’s comments. Everyone seemed to be speaking in terms of T'Pol being or acting emotional but there was no mention or outrage over T’Pol (a Vulcan) having just been portrayed (implied) as having intercourse (outside of her normal Pon Farr cycle). :unsure: :)
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Quote:
 
Thought: That alien looked a lot like a Suliban with a different skin texture. The texture could be the result of the experiment he was a part of. He could even walk through walls like the Suliban. Hmm... It is the Suliban that "future guy" works with.


My husband had the same thought. His first words on seeing the alien were - He's a Suliban. I thought he was wrong, but after seeing him go through the walls the possibility does exist. One question though, couldn't the ships sensors identify a Suliban? They were able to pick up on the fact that he was humanoid. I know they can identify many species specifically and I thought Suliban was one of them. That's one big reason I thought my husband was wrong.
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gdog243
Rear Admiral
24thcenstfan
Feb 12 2004, 10:42 AM
Wichita
Feb 12 2004, 01:22 PM
24 the impression that I got was that they had sex.  From tidbits I've read various places, the producers/cast are saying that it was no dream or other reset button - they had sex.  Maybe what people are confused by is the lack of the "play by play" action ...  :shrug:   Previews did seem to imply there would be more shown than just the bare butt and a kiss.

BTW, the butt was supposedly NOT Blaylock's - no idea why - she doesn't seem to be shy about such things.

Ok, I gotcha. I was a little confused after reading everyone’s comments. Everyone seemed to be speaking in terms of T'Pol being or acting emotional but there was no mention or outrage over T’Pol (a Vulcan) having just been portrayed (implied) as having intercourse (outside of her normal Pon Farr cycle). :unsure: :)

Do you remember the scene right before T'pol disrobed when she was talking about Sim? Trip was assuming that she was Jealous of him and Cole, than T'pol brought up the whole thing about Sim telling her how he (Trip) felt when they were in that same room. That was the scene I was talking about, and I think that was the scene they were refering too. If that was the case, than you are right, it was not intercourse, but intimate contact.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Minuet
Feb 12 2004, 01:54 PM
One question though, couldn't the ships sensors identify a Suliban? They were able to pick up on the fact that he was humanoid. I know they can identify many species specifically and I thought Suliban was one of them. That's one big reason I thought my husband was wrong.

That's a good point Minuet. Perhaps the answer is in the genetic manipulations of the Suliban. Maybe there is more than one genetic prototype so the one in the Enterprise's databanks wouldn't necessarily match. :shrug:
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
gdog243
Feb 12 2004, 02:15 PM
24thcenstfan
Feb 12 2004, 10:42 AM
Wichita
Feb 12 2004, 01:22 PM
24 the impression that I got was that they had sex.  From tidbits I've read various places, the producers/cast are saying that it was no dream or other reset button - they had sex.  Maybe what people are confused by is the lack of the "play by play" action ...  :shrug:   Previews did seem to imply there would be more shown than just the bare butt and a kiss.

BTW, the butt was supposedly NOT Blaylock's - no idea why - she doesn't seem to be shy about such things.

Ok, I gotcha. I was a little confused after reading everyone’s comments. Everyone seemed to be speaking in terms of T'Pol being or acting emotional but there was no mention or outrage over T’Pol (a Vulcan) having just been portrayed (implied) as having intercourse (outside of her normal Pon Farr cycle). :unsure: :)

Do you remember the scene right before T'pol disrobed when she was talking about Sim? Trip was assuming that she was Jealous of him and Cole, than T'pol brought up the whole thing about Sim telling her how he (Trip) felt when they were in that same room. That was the scene I was talking about, and I think that was the scene they were refering too. If that was the case, than you are right, it was not intercourse, but intimate contact.

The only fact we can be sure of is that they didn't spell out exactly what happened.

With that said, I don't see why they would have T'Pol completely disrobe if the intention wasn't for us to conclude that they had intercourse. The follow-up scene in the mess hall reinforced this idea too.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Fesarius
Feb 12 2004, 09:20 AM
Quote:
 
An officer can fraternize with other officers, but NEVER with an enlisted person!

Admiral,

Would you mind explaining the difference? When I read that, I was trying to figure out why one is okay while the other is not--perhaps it's because I thought enlisted persons and officers were synonymous? Is this a difference in rank question, or something else?

No, there are officers (who are commissioned) and enlisted people (who are not commissioned). To add further confusion, there are non-commissioned officers (your petty officers, or corporals and sergeants if you prefer) and to add a little madness there are also Warrant officers!

Hang on, let me find a page where I can direct you to the rank structure.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rankrate.html

That will give you a description of naval rates (enlisted) and ranks (officers).

Let's see if I can find one for the army through Google.

http://basic.armystudyguide.com/general/ranks.htm

There's one. Note the "E" and the "O" under the insignia. You should be able to match them up and figure out the equivalences. (You'll also see where I got the information on our last four Fleet Admirals... because I can never remember King!)

I WILL NOT add more confusion by showing what Air Force insignia look like.
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starbase63
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The Old Man
I missed the last 20 minutes, so if UPN9 New York shows Enterprise Sunday night, I can catch the rest then.
On what I did see, it was kind of drab. From the moment I saw another three minute "Previously on Enterprise" clip to the credit that the story was by B&B (I will admit to the bashers, the episodes credited to Berman and Braga are the weaker ones this season so far), I found myself not overly enthusiastic.
I find myself not being sure if I like T'Pol anymore or not, she really is becoming too much less-than-Vulcan.
BUT...most of you know my theory that T'Pol ends up being Sarek's mother...say I'm completely wrong on that. We also know I suspect Soval of being a Romulan. WHAT IF...Soval is so overly protective and possessive of T'Pol...because T'Pol is also a Romulan spy herself?
Hmmm......
:whistle:
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bonja
Commodore
Everything has been said. Unnecessary T&A, the odd rank structure where Lieutennants outrank Majors and the extremely untypical Vulcan T'Pol were all distracting. The only thing I really liked again in this episode was the writers remembered Mayweather was on the ship. :) :) 1/2 out of 5 :)

The only things I can imagine up for T'Pol's behavior is that Surak's family was Consevative Surakian and she is Reformed Neo-Surakian. Either that or T'Pol is an agent for a faction in the TCW herself.
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gdog243
Rear Admiral
starbase63
Feb 12 2004, 12:53 PM
I find myself not being sure if I like T'Pol anymore or not, she really is becoming too much less-than-Vulcan.
BUT...most of you know my theory that T'Pol ends up being Sarek's mother...say I'm completely wrong on that. We also know I suspect Soval of being a Romulan. WHAT IF...Soval is so overly protective and possessive of T'Pol...because T'Pol is also a Romulan spy herself?
Hmmm......
:whistle:

Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that, but Soval is really overprotective of T'pol, like in "The Expanse." Like you with T'pol, I'm finding myself not liking Reed very much. He just seems so "On the edge" that I don't trust him if he was my security chief. I mean he says the captain is so soft, but when the Captain wants to boost up security, he starts having a hissy fit. I don't understand.

:rolleyes:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Well, I'm on record as loving the character of T'Pol, which I still do. But I could do without the high degree (for Vulcans) of emotionalism thus far.

Starbase,

Oooh, I like that first theory (Sarek). I don't care too much for the Romulan angle (at least with T'Pol--I could take it with Soval, however as my emotional attachment as a viewer is greater with T'Pol).

Gdog,

I agree with regard to Reed. I do like him, but I am uneasy with his snide remarks and (apparent) instability at times. He's the weapons officer--I would not want him to be trigger happy!
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