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Carpenter Street - Official Review Thread; ***Warning Spoilers***
Topic Started: Nov 26 2003, 04:02 PM (572 Views)
Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
And here it is. The prerequisite time travel episode for Enterprise. No Star Trek series has gone without one yet. And it is November sweeps after all. :P

I must admit that I am enjoying the show more and more this year. Yes, some of the situations seem rediculous and unbelievable, but did any of you ever watch TOS? I really do like that they are trying to tackle some moral issues. :whistle:

Looking forward to reading everyone's opinion tonight after the show. Have fun!! :wave2:
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Nota bene: Has anyone noticed that the station wagon being driven on this episode is the same one used by "Shannon O'Donnell" in that Voyager episode with the Millennium Gate thingy in it?

Talk about recycling!
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Cool Vulcan
Captain
Admiralbill_gomec
Nov 26 2003, 09:23 PM
Nota bene: Has anyone noticed that the station wagon being driven on this episode is the same one used by "Shannon O'Donnell" in that Voyager episode with the Millennium Gate thingy in it?

Talk about recycling!

11:59 that was the episode name Admiral. I will take your word for it, for now. I haven't seen this one yet, but I have heard it was standard.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
This episode was ok…nothing spectacular…a tad ho hum. I am not surprised…B&B wrote this one. :blink:


Pros

Hey, was that a Vulcan Pinch I saw? Or were my eyes deceiving me? Man this is sad. I think that was the most exciting part of the episode. :lol: Sorry, I am in a giggly mood tonight. :lol: :whistle:

Anyway...

At least Archer and T'Pol came back to Enterprise with some Xindi Technology. Maybe this will accelerate this Xindi arc. Perhaps Enterprise will be back on track in the correct timeline by this Christmas.Posted Image


Cons

Loomis does all of this illegal activity/kidnapping for a man he hasn’t seen the face of? Odd. :huh:

I find the relative ease that Archer and T’Pol navigated the 21st Century to be a little unbelievable. Archer being able to drive an automobile so easily. The familiarity of foods while ordering at Burgerbutt. Although, the foods that Chef makes on Enterprise do resemble modern day meals. Ok, I will let that one pass. ;)

This Daniels guy disturbs me. One minute he knows everything, the next he doesn't. Then there is this small Xindi matter that he and his time travelling buddies couldn't fix themselves? :ermm:

The Captain and the First Officer go on a temporal away mission? I guess we are going with tradition here on this Trek series by sending the most "indispensable" crewmen on the most dangerous missions.

General Comments

I think the Reptilian-Xindi have been improperly named. I don’t think they look like reptiles/lizards at all.

Hey...love that Porthos. B&B sure know how to write great material for dogs. Ruff!


I give this episode :) :) ;) out of 5 :)
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
There was an awful lot that pegged the BS meter this week, but it wasn't all bad.

1. This was predictable in that "members of the Enterprise crew travel back in time to modern day Earth". I think the only series that didn't visit its "present day" was TNG, but they did go back to 1880 or so.

It'd be nice to see them travel back to 1789 and Philadelphia... maybe capture the framers of the Constitution and make them kill humanity.

2. WHile I don't find it hard to believe that Archer can drive a car, I do find it hard to believe that he does it so easily. I've driven a few older cars, and had to figure out how to use the choke and get by without power steering. I've ridden horses, if you want to go back 150 years. He should have acted a bit more like Kirk in "A Piece of the Action" when he was driving that old Chrysler/Ford/Nash. I can drive farm equipment, but it doesn't make me an expert.

3. I found it hard to believe that greed was such a motivator that the Loomis guy was going around and grabbing people off the street just for money, without asking what they were doing. Remember, (or maybe I misheard) he said he thought about asking. Also, what 24 said about doing it for a guy you can't see? You at least put someone (a Xindi humanoid) in a skimask or something.

4. I think T'Pol especially should have had a lot more trouble fitting in. Remember Spock in the Gary Seven episode? She isn't supposed to have had a lot of access to humans while stationed on earth. While she does make the obligatory anti-smoking message, (it wouldn't be a B&B Trek episode without a MESSAGE of some sort) she doesn't ask a lot of questions. Even though she almost tips her hand with "Is that the value of a life in the 21st century", she doesn't appear much of a fish out of water. Imagine yourself in 1853 and see how long before people looked at you funny.

5. I already talked about the recycled stationwagon. What is it with B&B? Can't they give their characters vehicles that were made AFTER 1970? How did that P.O.S. pass a pollution control inspection? A mid-80s Camaro with the requisite rust (because it is a GM vehicle) would have been more believable.

Overall, 2.5 out of 5. I've seen worse, but I expected more.
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bonja
Commodore
I was disappointed with this episode. Star Trek hasn't done a decent "travel back to present day Earth" story since the TOS episodes "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" and "Assignment:Earth".

I liked the nerve pinch and "tough guy" Archer. I also liked the traditional "story takes place in no time from the view of someone who didn't go" that we first saw in "City On the Edge Of Forever".I didn't even have problems with the food. A hamburger is a hamburger, today or 150 years from now.

I didn't like the fact that Archer could drive so easily, the gratuitous half-dressed female,and the previously mentioned point that the observers form the future couldn't prevent this, but then time travel in Trek has always been inconsistant.

Maybe if the episode didn't waste so much time having T'pol comment on the 21st century rather than getting on with the story I would have liked it more.

:) :) out of 5



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starbase63
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The Old Man
Did everyone miss a revelation that Daniels made that all but confirms the idea that Enterprise is taking place in an altered timeline?
He told Archer that "there is no historical record of any conflict with the Xindi...this isn't supposed to happen." (Quote not exact)
So in a way the bashers who have been whining that the Xindi conflict shouldn't be happening are correct...
Also, more cryptic remarks about Archer's future...will Jonathan Archer be the first Federation President, or is Archer the Future Guy as some have speculated?
I missed most of the episode, so I will have to wait until Sunday for a full review, but what I saw wasn't really that bad for something written by B&B...
B}
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bonja
Commodore
There's always the possibility that Daniels is from a different time line and that everything he bases his knowledge from is inaccurate. It would be as if I were living in Oct 1860 and a time traveller from the 23rd century came to warn me that President-elect Douglas would be assassinated in Jan 1861. When Lincoln wins the election though suddenly "things are happening that aren't supposed to."

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
What can I say that hasn't already been said here.

It was nice to see the Vulcan pinch for the first time on this show. However, Archer didn't even comment on it. I found that rather strange as he has never seen it before and doesn't know about it.

The car was something I didn't notice - Good catch Admiral! I guess they were trying for a tiny bit of continuity. Too bad they don't seem to know what the word really means <_<

As for Daniels, I think I have given up on trying to understand any appearance he makes on the show. Is he dead or alive? What does he really know? And why are his time traveling abilities limited in such strange ways? (why couldn't he handle this himself????) Any time he appears I can expect a confusing mess.

Overall an average show. Nowhere near as good as the last few weeks. I can't believe they used this mediocre show as thier last November sweeps show and the last for a few weeks.

:) :) out of 5 :)
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bonja
Commodore
Minuet
Nov 26 2003, 10:55 PM


It was nice to see the Vulcan pinch for the first time on this show. However, Archer didn't even comment on it. I found that rather strange as he has never seen it before and doesn't know about it.


The nerve pinch was used at least once in the first season. "Strange New World" is the episode I'm sure of. Archer wasn't around for that one and there may have been one other.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
I'll be watching (or taping) this one Sunday night, but from the sound of it our run of good Enterprise shows has stopped at... 3 is it?

The comments that I find interesting refer to the Temporal Cold War rearing its ugly head again. The more I hear of it, and given SB63's comments, the more I think somewhere along the way during the run of Enterprise it will be figured out that the timeline has to be corrected to preserve future history. I guess I would find it surprising if Enterprise turned out to be the first live action series in Star Trek history that turns out not to canon...

I find myself starting to hope they will wrap this Xindi arc up soon. The episodes of the past few weeks that have been best have not focused on the Xindi arc and could have been basic first or second season shows dealing with exploration of the final frontier.
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gdog243
Rear Admiral
Ok, now that we know ENT is set in a alternate universe, can we get full bore action, drama, story, and just brake any peice of continuity in the book. I will so give up Canon if we can just get a better product. The last 3 weeks were good, but tonights episode was a huge drop down back to earth.

I found this "episode" rather boring and pointless. When I saw the promo's, I expected this episode to give answers (Via Daniels) on many different things such as the TCW and its relation to the Xindi, how the hell he is still alive when 2 years ago at this same time Daniels was vaporized by silik, what the purpose of the Xindi were, etc. What we ended up getting was more garbled up excuses, un-interesting dialouge, and absolutely NO development on anything. Thats not the way you want to go out in a successful sweeps month.

So daniels doesn't know about the whole Xindi weapon or anything about them and his excuse was that this "Timeline" hasn't rippled to his time yet or something to that affect. Uh, excuse me? I'm not an expert in temporal mechanics, but if you change the past, than the timeline will change instantainiously. This episode contradicts everything I have seen on time travel in basically anything, be it a show or movie.

Also, can anyone tell me why they are in detroit, its night time, and there is no activity around at all. I mean with the time travelers firing ray guns, don't you think that ought to cause suspision. I don't know what detroit nightlife is like, but taking from any city, where is the drug dealers, gangs, the eminem crowds? Its 2004 and its quiet as a mouse in that town. I'm sorry but I don't buy it. Also, whats up with Archer having a difficult time understanding the concept of a car but than meraculusly drives one easily? I don't buy that either.

Not all of this episode was bad. There were a few funny scenes like the Drive-thru, and the vulcan nurve pinch. Other than that it was pretty dull and pointless.

By the way, Mayweather dialouge count: 0.

The less I see of the minor character and more of this BIG 3 crap, the more this show will suck. Hey Berman and Braga, GET YOUR ASS OUT OF 1960 AND CUT THE BIG 3 CRAP.

Grade: D
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TribbleMom
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Commodore
starbase63
Nov 26 2003, 08:31 PM
Did everyone miss a revelation that Daniels made that all but confirms the idea that Enterprise is taking place in an altered timeline?
He told Archer that "there is no historical record of any conflict with the Xindi...this isn't supposed to happen." (Quote not exact)
So in a way the bashers who have been whining that the Xindi conflict shouldn't be happening are correct...

That's about the first thing I noticed! Can everyone say, "Big Cosmic Reset Button?" Since they brought up the Temporal Cold War again, I am assuming that will be the vehicle for making this entire season flash out of existence.

I seem to recall the collective groan when Dallas was on and we found out that an entire season had been "just a dream." Oooh, I hate those things.

Well, it sure would explain why no one had ever heard of the Xindi before in Trek lore.
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KiraAnara
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Ensign
Quote:
 
The familiarity of foods while ordering at Burgerbutt

Well as someone said, a Buger is a Burger. But also, I am sure Arhcer can read the menu board that is right next to the order speaker. It's not hard for him to read it and see what they have.

Quote:
 
1. This was predictable in that "members of the Enterprise crew travel back in time to modern day Earth". I think the only series that didn't visit its "present day" was TNG, but they did go back to 1880 or so.

I don't think DS9 came to present time ever either. They went to the 21st century, but that was it. Up until now it was only TOS and VOY.

Quote:
 
It was nice to see the Vulcan pinch for the first time on this show. However, Archer didn't even comment on it. I found that rather strange as he has never seen it before and doesn't know about it.

We have seen it at least twice before now. Also, Archer may know what a Neck Pinch is. He may even seen it before.

This episode was okay. I was expecting more from it. Why can't Daniels take care of this himself? Is he trying in some way to help Archer get the info he needs? Does he know more than he is leading on? Who knows. It seems to me that they have not proven that this series is set in an alternate universe.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
This episode didn't help my confidence any that Enterprise might be improving. Not the worst episode, but boring and too much didn't make sense.

I had the same thought as gdog243 regarding Daniels' comment that time changes ripple slowly to the future and therefore he didn't yet know the outcome of the temporal tampering. In TOS, City on the Edge of Forever, McCoy steps through the portal and instantly the Enterprise has vanished from orbit. Kirk and Spock go back in time, fix things, and return and the rest of the crew thought they had been gone for only seconds. Yet the Enterprise is already back in orbit. Trip's reaction suggested he thought T'Pol and Archer had only been gone for seconds too. These are all proof that changes ripple instantaneously...

Daniel's says he doesn't have time to get clearance to go back to 2004 himself. Excuse me, but he could take 10 centuries to get clearance and it would make absolutely no difference to time in the past... And he DID get clearance to send Archer and T'Pol to do the same task. It seems to me that involving someone else to do the same task would have taken at least no less and possibly even more time in order to obtain clearance...

So this was either bad writing or there is a lot more to Daniel's then he lets on. (Could he be the bad guy and "future guy" is really the good guy...?)

The Xindi on Earth:
1) How did they get money? Did they just walk up to an ATM like Archer in full view of Detroit residents? :rolleyes:
2) How did they contact the accomplice? Surely not face to face. So the guy just agreed to go along with them, say, over the telephone without ever seeing who he was talking to...? :ermm: I don't buy it.
3) Why did the Xindi pick Detroit? Wouldn't a less populated place be easier to hide in and easier to abduct humans? Yes, they needed to be able to find each blood type, but since they were involving an accomplice anyway, this could have been done somewhere else less conspicous.
4) Why 2004? Why not, say, 1000 when it would be easier to abduct people without them being noticed missing?

I also noticed several points already made by others:
- Archer drove too well.
- T'Pol carelessly commented "Is that how much humans are worth in the 21st century?"
- The two highest ranking officers being the away team - tactically stupid

Two things I liked:
- It was good to see T'Pol use the Vulcan pinch. (But I also thought this was the first time in Enterprise and was surprised by Archer's non-reaction.)
- In the Burger scene, T'Pol didn't want any fries and the accomplice guy says "Have it your way", a play on the Burger King marketing line. Funny.

:) :) out of :) :) :) :) :) (and I feel like I'm being generous)
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