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al-quaida today
Topic Started: Nov 25 2003, 09:02 PM (341 Views)
nztrekkie
Lieutenant
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm...ubsection=world

"broken the back of al-queda" huh bill ? just a bit of "mopping up" to do ?

how can you "break the back" of an ideaology ?

I think 24C raised a very important point in yesterday's post - underestimating your opponent.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
How about letting your opponent win because you over estimated him - and in the end caused your own defeat?

maybe that’s why there are people like Admiralbill_gomec and ds9074 in this world to make sure that things fall right in the middle.


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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
Well Nz, the general concensus does seem to be that Al-Qaeda is a shadow of its former self. They are pretty much limited to much smaller scale hit and run tactics. The article you post does not seem to counter that. Can they provide a useful resource and inspiration, sure. What's surprising about that?

The odds that we will ever totally erraicate the ideaology would be the height of hubris. Can we defeat those that are willing to carry out the actions? Yes, over time we can.
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nztrekkie
Lieutenant
Swidden
Nov 25 2003, 10:05 PM
Can we defeat those that are willing to carry out the actions? Yes, over time we can.

I disagree that it is possible to ever eradicate everyone who is willing to indulge in violent political tactics, and I can't recall any one at any time who has ever attempted it for that reason - it can't be done.

Indeed, it is more likely that in trying to eradicate these people, you'll simply increase the numbers who are willing to take their place !
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Yes, al Queda (learn how to spell) is a shadow of its former self, attacks on soldiers have LESSENED in the past two weeks (thanks in great part to OPERATION IRON HAMMER) and you are still a troller.

It is easy to break the back of an ideology (learn to spell again). STAMP IT OUT.

Why is it that we haven't seen mass demonstrations against supposed American imperialism in Iraq? If you think al Queda and the Ba'ath party are as strong as you want them to be, then why haven't their been mass coordinated attacks instead of relative pinpricks?

There are an estimated 5000 al Queda and Ba'ath terrorists in Iraq. There are an estimated 50000 sympathizers. There are TWENTY FIVE million people in Iraq, and most of them WANT us there and claim WE NEED to be there. Yes, al Queda is whittled away to nearly nothing, and the Ba'athist name will soon only be spoken IN HELL!

From the article:

Quote:
 
The old, damaged military organisation of al Qaeda has undergone a transformation to terror sponsor. That means Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri (his deputy) and others are more active today in the sense of franchising terrorism," said Berndt Georg Thamm, a German writer on security issues.


What complete horse***t! You can't be much of a terror sponsor without RESOURCES, and that means financial and material. Moron.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
nztrekkie
Nov 25 2003, 07:50 PM
Swidden
Nov 25 2003, 10:05 PM
Can we defeat those that are willing to carry out the actions? Yes, over time we can.

I disagree that it is possible to ever eradicate everyone who is willing to indulge in violent political tactics, and I can't recall any one at any time who has ever attempted it for that reason - it can't be done.

Indeed, it is more likely that in trying to eradicate these people, you'll simply increase the numbers who are willing to take their place !

As I said, it would be the height of hubris to think that we could eradicate the ideology that goes with it. I guess I was not particularly clear earlier, though. I do think that we can effectively cripple, perhaps even eliminate, various groups. That does not mean that we will terminate every last member with extreme prejudice. Ideologies don't die out easily. There will always be someone inspired by some convoluted idea to act out violently. The best you can hope for is that over time the opposing ideology (Which ever of the two is the kinder, gentler one) will win out.

Look at it this way. Countries that 20 years ago were hardcore communist have turned toward democracy. Even many of those that remain socialistic are turning towards free market principles. This seems to be the ideology that is slowly winning out.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
That doesn't seem the view of the Department of Homeland Security, the Pentagon and the CIA.
Who have issued yet another security alert - this time warning the likelyhood a massive attack on American interests - or even of attacks within continental USA that could be even more devastating than 911 and could if you take these warnings seriously (and I wouldn't - based the track record and all the false alarms issued since 911) involve biological or chemical weapons next time.

(Mostly since an Islamic holiday and Islamic festible is finishing soon and some claim that the terrorists think they'd spend eternity in paradise if they die in an attack now - is that the only reason for the warning ?)

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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I beg to differ, but what security alert? We're still at Code Yellow, and that hasn't changed since last summer. Since Ramadan is over, and there weren't attacks on American soil (that was the concern), or on American interests, I guess there wasn't much of a threat.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Admiral,

What are the various codes, and what do they indicate? Just curious.
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nztrekkie
Lieutenant
good point Somerled (on another post) - if al -quaida is a shadow of it former self, why are world wide terror alerts still being made ???
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Perhaps because a hand full of people can do a lot of damage and killing

wether true or not, the shadow of al -quaidas former self can still do a lot of damage.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
nztrekkie
Nov 26 2003, 12:20 PM
good point Somerled (on another post) - if al -quaida is a shadow of it former self, why are world wide terror alerts still being made ???

In 2001 we all got caught sleeping at the wheel. "Chatter" in the weeks leading up to the attacks had been unusally high so when that happens since then we start look for the possibility even if it is remote. Why, better to be safe now than sorry later.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Fesarius
Nov 26 2003, 10:25 AM
Admiral,

What are the various codes, and what do they indicate?  Just curious.

There are five alert levels that go from red to blue (red, orange, yellow, blue, green).

Green is the lowest alert level, indicating a minimal threat of terrorist activity. It sequences up to red, which indicates a severe risk. With the exception of a few weeks earlier in the year (during the Iraq War), we are at condition yellow, and have been since the inception of these alerts.

Check out http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=29 for more information. This has been a part of homeland security since the department's inception.

One more thing... to answer the mocking question of "why are world wide terror alerts still being made ???" they were during Ramadan, which has now ended.
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Quote:
 
how can you "break the back" of an ideaology ?


Two nukes and a foriegn occupatoin broke the back of the god-emperor ideology of Japan pretty good.

Quote:
 
Indeed, it is more likely that in trying to eradicate these people, you'll simply increase the numbers who are willing to take their place !


Like the attempt to eradicate communist terrorist cells in europe has given a rise to an increase of such cells? Oh...wait..we, I mean the Americans, "broke the back" of that ideology with the fall of the soviet union.

Its nice to know that the educational system of New Zealand suffers from the same flaws as our own. The "educators" are so busy telling students what to think that they have forgotten to teach them how to think.

ANOVA
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
ANOVA
Nov 30 2003, 07:09 PM
Quote:
 
how can you "break the back" of an ideaology ?


Two nukes and a foriegn occupatoin broke the back of the god-emperor ideology of Japan pretty good.

Quote:
 
Indeed, it is more likely that in trying to eradicate these people, you'll simply increase the numbers who are willing to take their place !


Like the attempt to eradicate communist terrorist cells in europe has given a rise to an increase of such cells? Oh...wait..we, I mean the Americans, "broke the back" of that ideology with the fall of the soviet union.

Its nice to know that the educational system of New Zealand suffers from the same flaws as our own. The "educators" are so busy telling students what to think that they have forgotten to teach them how to think.

ANOVA

Some old timers in Japan still believe the old ideology of the emporor being god.

Communism collapsed in on itself for a variety of reasons, much of which included its inability to provide adequate services to the people. Throw in institutionalized corruption on top of it all and you had a prescription for failure. The former Soviet Union had/has a very basic infrasturcture problem and absolutely no warm water ports.

What will help undo Al-Qaeda is what has been under way in Iran for some time now. People who really want moderation (as in who controls the elected Iranian Parliament) sooner or later I expect there will be a bigger backlash against the council of clerics in time than there was against the Shah in the late 1970's.

For those interested, I have finally taken the time to locate and retrieve information on the Iranian Consititution. The one caveat in it that keeps it from being anywhere near as good as the US Constitution is how often it states that the Qu'ran supercedes it. A very big caveat if there ever was one...

LINK: http://www.salamiran.org/IranInfo/State/Constitution/
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