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| the change of tune by the US administration | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 5 2003, 11:01 PM (321 Views) | |
| nztrekkie | Oct 5 2003, 11:01 PM Post #1 |
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Lieutenant
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a very interesting program has just been shown on NZ tv called "Lifting the Veil of Deception"......in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was a British program, and when it is taken with what we already know of the current Bush administration's unparalleled arrogance and incompetance, demonstrates how far down the plug hole, "leadership" in America has sunk. As an American man said on TV recently about "leadership" in America - the prime pre-requisite for a leader in America today, is that you must NOT be an axe murderer. If you pass this test, you're in the running ! However, I don't want to deflect attention from the information that was contained in the TV program. Whilst the agenda of the program was obvious, it never-the-less, contained interviews and speeches by Bush administration officials which make one raise one's eyebrow somewhat. (or vomit your guts out, you decide which). Under Secretary of State, John Bolten said that he considered 10,000 dead civilians in the Iraq invasion "quite low" considering the type of military excercise it was. Mr Bolten was adament that this figure ("thousands") was the "lowest possible" and a testment to the wonderfully quick victory in Iraq. After further mini-speeches espousing the gloriousness of the American cause in Iraq, Mr Bolten was then filmed, presumably without him realising the camera was still rolling, giving his opinion of the interviewer's political leanings.......... "you're a Labour Party member are ya....?" Mr Bolten asks the interviewer, as he stands to leave the stage. Mr Bolten was showing obvious discomfort at the questions he had just been asked in the interview. Obviously Mr Bolten is a little behind the times, as his intended disparaging remark was a little wide of the mark, seeing as the current UK govt which joins in America's glorious Iraqi victory, is itself the LABOUR PARTY GOVT and he didn't seem to realise this. "no, the Labour party are the Conservatives now" the interviewer replied, indicating that the Labour party is no longer the left wing, union dominated, socialist party that it was some years ago. (great "Intelligence" huh ?). However, trying again to pin something on his interviewer, Mr Bolten asks......... "ah, you're a communist party member are ya ?......a communist....?" Under Secretary Bolten asks with a red face. (ironic huh - that Mr Bolten's face should be red ??) Obviously to Under Sec Bolten, any interviewer who questions the number of civilians killed so far in Iraq, could well be a communist party member, as being a communist, seemingly, is a highly undesirable status to be, for Mr Bolten, and no-one but a communist would be concerned about such deaths. At least Under Sec of State Bolten finished his interview. Over at Defence, Under Secretary Douglas Feith was also struggling to answer perfectly legitimate questions on civilian casualties, or at least, some military Colonel thought he was struggling........ the interviewer notes to Mr Feith, that some people, (well actually a great many people, IMHO) have a problem with the US killing many more innocent people than died in 9/11 in the first place. After some to and fro on the topic, the military "minder" (unseen in the background during the whole interview) decides enough is enough and steps forward and stops the interview from going any further - the screen goes blank, a bit like the last expression on Under Secretary of Defence Feith's face. Neither of these interviews did much good for the public face of the Bush administration IMHO. But then again, they never seem to care what people think about them. They just do what they like, when they like, to whomever they like, anyway. But the real "money shots" of the program came near the end, with two of the heavyweights of the Bush administration calmly giving their views of the military threat posed by Saddam Hussein, summarising as follows - Sec of State Powell - "he (Saddam) has not developed any significant capability with respect to WMD, he is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." National Security Advisor Condolezza Rice concurs in a separate interview, adding - " we've been able to keep arms from him - his military forces haven't been rebuilt...." Both of these statements are direct word-for-word quotes from the videoed interviews they were giving. Why the apparent U-turn from the current views of these senior administration staff regarding WMD and Saddam ????????? Because these interviews were given in February and July of 2001, BEFORE the once in a life time opportunity given to the "crazies" in the Whitehouse by the events of Sept 11. All of a sudden, "Saddam has not developed significant WMD capability" (paraphrasing) becomes - with a shake of the magic "bullshit wand" - "Saddam is a major threat to world peace and stability" blah, blah, blah............ ad infinitum..........ad nauseum.......... now just add a touch of the public comments by such luminaries as Rumsfeld ("there was no new intelligence after 9/11, we just looked at our old intelligence differently") and Wolfwitz ("we picked WMD as the reason to invade Iraq as it was the only one we could agree on") there you have it ladies and gentlemen.....the true face of this American administration : EVIL. That's not just my opinion ......... at the completion of the Nueremberg Tribunal investigating the NAZI Germany War Crimes of WW2, one of the most important conclusions was that THE UNPROVOKED ATTACK OF A SOVEREIGN NATION WAS CONSIDERED THE ULTIMATE WAR CRIME. (just like the unprovoked US intervention in Panama too I guess). The unprovoked attack of a soverign nation is considered the ULTIMATE war crime because it embodies all other war crimes. Death of civilians, illegal detainment and humiliation of "prisoners", disregard for international law, etc........ You know what I mean, just like the unprovoked attack on Kuwait by Iraq. But of course, I hear the chorus now, "that was different". You're right that was different; the Iraqi attack on Kuwait could easily be considered MORE justifiable than the US attack on Iraq, but I will leave that for another post altogether. Additionally, a lady from NY who's brother died in 9/11 as she watched the second plane hit the tower, gave a very heart felt interview about her President's administration and al-quaida. She also considers Bush evil, supposedly, because as she pointed out....... (paraphrasing) "when you hold a mirror up to George Bush, you see Osama bin laden reflected back; both are fanatical in their views, both are so sure that God is on THEIR side, and both are killing people to reach their goals". Sobering stuff. One last thing - the term "the crazies in the Whitehouse" was not mine - it was given, by name, to Messers Rumsfeld, Pearl and Wolfowitz by a personal friend of George Bush Seniors, the ex CIA operative Ray McGovern, also interviewed in this program. "The crazies" was the name of this group of, well...... crazies, commonly used by CIA employees when reffering to anyone in this little club. It was also why, in the opinion of Mr McGovern, George Bush Snr kept these people well away from himself when he was in the Whitehouse. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Oct 5 2003, 11:12 PM Post #2 |
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UberAdmiral
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How do I respond to this utter tripe except to say, "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!" Figures that lefties like you have trouble separating an OPINION television show from the real world. Come back when you have something "startling." For now, though, stop wasting precious bandwidth with your sad rants. |
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| Swidden | Oct 6 2003, 01:31 AM Post #3 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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That should read convicted axe murder. If you're not convicted you can still be in the running. Heck, out of the 130+ candidates trying for Govenor here is California there might be one for all I know...
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| Dandandat | Oct 6 2003, 12:14 PM Post #4 |
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Time to put something here
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Hate-mongering again NZ? Funny thing is, you wrote so much hate this time, that most people wont even read the whole thing. I think you do better when you get right to the point in your hate posts. Short and simple always makes a better point then long and windfall. But hey that’s just one dumb Americans option right? |
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| gvok | Oct 6 2003, 12:30 PM Post #5 |
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Unregistered
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NZtrecker, would you favor a complete and imediate US pullout from Iraq and Afghanistan or do you think the US has an obligation to rebuild these countries before it leaves them? |
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| nztrekkie | Oct 6 2003, 03:21 PM Post #6 |
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Lieutenant
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Due to the unparalleled incompetancy of the Bush adminstrations handling of every issue of this quagmire - political, diplomatic, military - it is now almost impossible for any simple solution in either country, especially Iraq, unless things change serious course. I see this morning there is a Whitehouse "reorganisation" of the whole Iraq effort - a sure sign things are 100 times worse than is publically acknowleged. Pulling out of Iraq, or staying put as is, are both only going to produce more misery for the poor Iraqi people. The damage is done - Iraq was never a haven for al-quaida, BUT IT IS NOW. There aws no link between Iraq and bin-laden, BUT THERE PROBABLY IS NOW ! Bush has done what every intelligent critic feared he would - push terrorists like bin laden, who had no natural affinity or liking for Saddam, closer together. In the meantime, just for good measure, Bush is also repsonsible for the 5000 - 7000 EXTRA civilians dying annually since Saddam was deposed. These figures are taken from Baghdad morgue reports which show that for the last few months, 600 - 800 civilians are being killed by general lawlessness, compared to 200 maximum, the same months last year. And that is just Baghdad. Bush needs to double the troops in Iraq - either US or others - to get things under serious control. But he can't do that as it is too harmful politically and it would be an admission that Rumsfeld's plans have been an utter failure. So more Iraqi's will die becuase of Rumsfeld's idiocy. *Edited by Wichita* Violation of Terms of Use PS : to bill and dan - I must have hit the mark spot on with my post, as it is a while since your standard pointless and glib comments have been trotted out as a response. |
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| Swidden | Oct 6 2003, 03:27 PM Post #7 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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You appear to be advocating the assassination of President Bush or other members of his administration. I think that will not sit well with a viariety of posters on either side of the subject. Myself included. You may be surprised to learn that electrical power generation now exceeds the pre-invasion levels. It is estimated that it must still be increased another 2,000 mega watts before it is considered to be an adequate supply. |
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| ImpulseEngine | Oct 6 2003, 05:17 PM Post #8 |
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Admiral
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Exactly right. I read about half, didn't see anything to cause jaw-dropping, and decided to move on since I'm short on time right now. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Oct 6 2003, 06:40 PM Post #9 |
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UberAdmiral
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John Hinkley? NZ, if you were here right now I'd introduce you to the tip of my boot! You absolute vermin!!! Still can't post anything of substance? JUST GO AWAY!! |
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| ANOVA | Oct 6 2003, 07:23 PM Post #10 |
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Vice Admiral
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Gee NZ, If I were to tell the Secret Service of your pro assasination statement what would your intelligence service do with your name? New Zealand does have a intelligence sevice doesn't it. working on becoming my first persona non grata on this board? substance, not the inflamatory lining of a cows stomach which you wish to spew on this board is what make an argumant worth while. ANOVA |
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| Dandandat | Oct 6 2003, 08:31 PM Post #11 |
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Time to put something here
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Well I must have hit the mark spot on with my response, since you have to make this up as the only time I ever reply to your posts is to call you out as a hater. I have not sought to debate your hater posts for almost 1 year now. But if you would like to believe other wise that’s up to you. |
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| 24thcenstfan | Oct 6 2003, 09:13 PM Post #12 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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NZ…you are going way too far!! I can’t believe I defended you in the past (said shaking my head in disgust and regret)! <_<
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| nztrekkie | Oct 6 2003, 10:27 PM Post #13 |
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Lieutenant
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perhaps now some of you might be feeling how many people in the world, including myself, feel about the current American administration. It has an apalling international record of dealing with its freinds and enemies alike using - confrontation ("you're either with us or against us"), bribery ($9 billion for Turkey if they let US bases on their soil - which was refused), arrogance ("we can do this invasion without even Britain if we want to"), lies (take your pick), deceptions (ditto), bullying (remember the Dixie Chicks, who now seem like angels), stupidity (sending just 140,000 soldiers to overthrow the Iraqi regime and occupy one of the most dangerous areas on the globe, when it took 650,000 soldiers just to flush the departing and dejected Iraqi army back to its border in 1991) etc..... I could go on and on. I was appreciative of people's support recently during the uppity/granny-gate saga - I am not asking for support here, merely trying to indicate that many people (alot of people actually) feel VERY ANGRY about your current administration. Think about the woman whose home in Afghanistan was mistakenly bombed by a 500lb US bomb killing all 8 members of her family. When she made her way to the US embassy there to ask for help, she was turned away as a beggar. Do you and I really have such a hard life if we have to listen to each others comments on this board ? |
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| 24thcenstfan | Oct 6 2003, 10:47 PM Post #14 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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NZ…I don’t regret defending you in that particular situation. I stand by my past comments. What I do regret is that I defended a person who could harbor so much disdain for another human being...and could advocate that person’s assassination simply because you do not like his foreign policy. Why not advocate his removal through the democratic process...like the average person would? I am not fond of Bush's domestic or foreign policy, but he is no Saddam Hussein, Milosovich or Hitler (men who really deserved to be ousted by the undemocratic process). How about keeping things in perspective...and not demonizing or attributing evil characteristics to people who do not deserve it. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Oct 6 2003, 10:53 PM Post #15 |
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UberAdmiral
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BULL$H!T! This was a troll, plain and simple. Perhaps I was being too kind when I called you "vermin" |
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I can’t believe I defended you in the past (said shaking my head in disgust and regret)! <_<

2:30 PM Jul 11