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| Senator Schumer, "No ordinary leak" | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 29 2003, 06:02 PM (738 Views) | |
| Wichita | Sep 30 2003, 08:09 AM Post #16 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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I guess then it depends on what you are reading....
This is from a compilation news story - not an op-ed piece. Wilson backtracked Monday, saying he had not meant to imply that Rove "was the source or the authorizer, just that I thought that it came from the White House, and Karl Rove was the personification of the White House political operation." But Wilson also said, in a telephone interview, "I have people who I have confidence in, who have indicated to me that he [Rove], at a minimum, condoned it and certainly did nothing to put a stop to it for a week after it was out there." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98653,00.html One additional point here - who the heck is Joe Wilson? I never heard of him before the op-ed piece and this the first time since. It would be very one sided to ignore his political motivations in the case. He was a career diplomat who is getting more press in retirement complaining about the Bush administration that he ever got in his career.
It's funny you mention the BBQ because I have actually done that. I meant well known to reporters ... as in, "Joe Wilson will be going to Nigeria with his wife, a CIA analyst who works with WMD's, to look into the questions about buying uranium." The information very well may have been well-known among reporters, but "publishing" the information may make illegal. Interesting, BTW, that the Bush administration chose a person so politically opposed to them to make the visit to Nigeria.
How secret can what the wife of a US ambassador does for a living be?
And a current Democratic US senator, on more than one occasion, leaked the same type of sensitive information. After the second time, he was pressured into giving up his committe post. Not his senate seat - his committee post. No loss of job, no jail time - he lost a postion on a Senate committee. That's it - despite evidence that at least one foreign operative working on the case with US intelligence lost his life as a result. That's the reason that I have suggested caution in this case. I am not saying that there is no case or that people should not have to face the consequences of their actions. I am simply saying that the facts should be looked at and a determination made if a crime was committed before convicting specific people of that crime. I've seen reports that VP Cheney personally approved Joe Wilson to head up the trip to Nigeria despite knowing his political opposition. If true, it would hardly be a surprise to Cheney that Wilson came up with the results that he did and therefore would not be inclined to punish him for it. And I wasn't toally kidding about the "spook" picnic ... |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 08:23 AM Post #17 |
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UberAdmiral
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The reports I've seen indicated that Cheney tasked the CIA to send someone to Nigeria, and THEY sent Wilson (who is a retired Clintonite who has on more than one occasion slammed the Bush administration). As the end of my National Review link said, "not good tradecraft." |
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| Wichita | Sep 30 2003, 09:03 AM Post #18 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Actually that doesn't conflict with what I read. Cheney gave the task to the CIA and they picked Wilson. Cheney didn't veto the choice. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 11:57 AM Post #19 |
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UberAdmiral
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Joe Wilson even names his wife on his web page. http://www.mideasti.org/html/bio-wilson.html This should further deflate Chuck Schumer's trial balloon. |
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| qubed | Sep 30 2003, 03:35 PM Post #20 |
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Ensign
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uh....I doubt that her NAME was secret. The website does post her name but gives no indication as to her work. She could have been a florist for all we know from Wilson's bio site. Hi Bill, Those articles you posted I don't think do much to discredit the allegations. Which by all means is what they are, allegations. However, they are allegations against 2 individuals who at least had 1 previous example of releasing similar classified materials so they've got a bit of a record here. First off Novak is obviously going to defend himself and his sources by flat out denying as much of it as he can. We'll have to wait for the investigation to see what actual evidnece comes to light. I doubt anybody would say that printing the name of a CIA official is ever a good thing. The NRO article uses the idea that Wilson's political idealogy and track record to suggest that he "has it out" for Bush and Co. Which may well be true but that doesn't make his allegations wrong nor does it do anything to weaken the motive for Bush and Co to go after him. The reporter is also dismissive of Wilson's assertions about his Niger report, which is a bit off topic. He then also brings up Wilson's war assertions, which while an opportunity for the reproter to dig at him, doesn't say anything about Novak or Rove. This whole piece is trying to discredit Wilson and move the attention to him but does nothing to really speak to the allegations. Execpt of course when he says "Who didn't know". Which ain't a spectacular arguement. Even if everybody in Washington knew that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who want to harm CIA operatives who didn't who now do. Rose, er Wichita (darn it!) Your point about Wilson "backtracking" was kinda my point. In previous interveiws I've heard Wilson go after Rove but thats what you do. He isn't go blame Shorty McShortstein or any staffer, who I assume all have humorous names, for the issue. Even if Rove only didn't stop it or it came from his office he would still be the captain of that ship and be responsible. Your point about political motivations is well taken but on the other side of the coin Bush and Co had every motivation to go after him anyway they could as well for similar reasoning. Wilson is no more or less guilty of playing politics then Bush and Co are. And if we take present evidence to light we know Rove and Novak have been naughty in the past where as Wilson is guilty of of no such thing. Wilson hasn't been a part of any similar major or minor scandal I can remember. "How secret can what the wife of a US ambassador does for a living be?" - well this is just specualtion. Even if we are to buy that everybody in Washington, reporters included, knew that doens't mean that everybody in America or the World knew. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 03:39 PM Post #21 |
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UberAdmiral
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Interesting analysis. (One final comment... Wilson's website has been edited. It used to say she was a government analyst.) |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 03:59 PM Post #22 |
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UberAdmiral
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Continuing on what Rose posted above: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/9/29/143328.shtml The article is titled, "Wilson: I Made Up Rove Leak Allegation" Here are the contents: Former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Joseph Wilson admitted Monday morning that he fabricated a key part of his allegation that the White House deliberately blew his wife's cover as a CIA weapons analyst. Wilson has accused top Bush political strategist Karl Rove of leaking the name to columnist Robert Novak, telling a Seattle audience last month that he wanted "to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs." But he told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Monday that he got "carried away" and made up the Rove allegation out of thin air. "In one speech I gave out in Seattle not too long ago, I mentioned the name Karl Rove," Wilson told GMA. "I think I was probably carried away by the spirit of the moment." Wilson then confessed, "I don't have any knowledge that Karl Rove himself was either the leaker or the authorizer of the leak." Wilson insisted, however, "I have great confidence that, at a minimum, [Rove] condoned it and certainly did nothing to shut it down." |
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| benetil | Sep 30 2003, 04:47 PM Post #23 |
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Unregistered
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It's odd that CIA Director George Tenet would send two letters to DOJ about this matter since there is obviously no problem here. And so we see our government conduct a public character-assassination of the guy (Joe Wilson) who served his nation for many years. Preceding the public character-assassination, we saw our government attempt to silence Joe Wilson's criticism by firing a warning shot (leaking his wife's name to the press). The next thing we'll hear from the Republican spin machine is that George Tenet is a treasonous traitor who secretly worships Bill Clinton - only people who engage in Clinton-worship would dare ask DOJ to follow-up on a trivial issue like this. And by gosh, if the DOJ should find any improprieties on the part of any White House personnel, then we'll see the same kind of garbage attacks against DOJ. I'm growing weary of this "only anti-American traitors would dare question the Bush administration" crap. One thing about President Bush and his administration - they don't play the Republican/Democrat game - they play the good American/rotten treasonous traitor game. I'd just as soon they go ahead and start calling their critics democrats rather than calling them anti-American traitors. Why would Vice President Cheney ask the CIA to send someone to investigate the Iraq/yellow cake/Africa connections - and then reject the findings of the person that the CIA sent? Either Ambassador Joe Wilson is an America-hating, Bush-administration despising traitor or maybe he didn't provide the requisite answer. Thank goodness Vice President Cheney found that unreliable (and erroneous!) British report to fall back on so that the President could charge ahead with the prescribed message that would make a fool of our nation in front of the world! |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 05:30 PM Post #24 |
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UberAdmiral
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You do realize that the CIA investigates an average of FIFTY government leaks a year (on average), right? Once again, Benetil, you are hearing selectively. A month before the "leak" Wilson's wife's occupation was known. By the way, she WAS NOT A COVERT CIA OPERATIVE. The Republican spin machine... I'm sorry, I can't keep from laughing. Most Republicans are tired of the Bush Administration DEFENDING George Tenet, not slamming his character. Personally, I'm tired of the Bush Administration's "new tone" of making nice with the Democrats. Why? Because you get crap like this from Joe Wilson. What is the Wilson-Tenet connection? They are Clintonites. Time for both to go. If you want to talk about leaks, how about the Clinton's leaking Paula Jones IRS records to the Washington Post? What about their leaking Linda Tripp's teenage arrest for shoplifting to the media? What about dragging Kathleen Willey through the mud? What about Craig Livingstone having possession of 1100 FBI files??? I grow tired of this sniping. If you want to make an issue of something that isn't an issue, go ahead. Every time the Dems try, they come up with egg on their faces. Watch your cholesterol.
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| polarslam | Sep 30 2003, 05:45 PM Post #25 |
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Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Newsmax? LOL! It's like Pravda without the sublty |
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| Wichita | Sep 30 2003, 06:21 PM Post #26 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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The man was worked in a number of countries, including Iraq, as a diplomat for the American government. I can't believe that not one of those foreign governments discovered what his wife did for a living. |
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| Cool Vulcan | Sep 30 2003, 06:21 PM Post #27 |
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Captain
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Clinton was a jerk and I feel he betrayed the country by lieing to the American people. He knew missle were missing and left it to Bush. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 30 2003, 07:19 PM Post #28 |
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UberAdmiral
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PSlam, I'd trust Newsmax before CNN any day! Why? Because Newsmax is HONEST with their bias. P.S. "Sublety" |
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| Swidden | Sep 30 2003, 07:35 PM Post #29 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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To have Wilson's site say, at one time or another, that his wife was a government analyst is a pretty generic job description. I am the first to admit that I do not know if there is a distinction between revealing the name of CIA analysts and CIA field agents. I would guess that there is no such distinction. The possibility that an analyst's identity being known could compromise mission objectives seems entirely plausible. Is this an end of the world scenario for the Bush Administration? Not likely. It's going to rate rather low on the radar cmpared to the meat and potatoes issues that will appeal to voters. |
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| benetil | Sep 30 2003, 08:13 PM Post #30 |
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Unregistered
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I agree that President Bill Clinton had no moral barometer (as far as I can tell) and that he was a pathological liar. The other thing is that he hurt those around him - his wife, his loyal supporters, administration officials, and innocent young (ok, ok - some not so innocent, some not so young) ladies with whom he carried on. By all accounts, President Clinton's presidency is littered with one personal failing after another - and the personal failings detract from the progress that was made in areas during his eight years in the White House. |
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