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Italy in the dark; French to blame?
Topic Started: Sep 28 2003, 11:45 AM (233 Views)
jschmitty
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Looks like the US isn't the only country with an antiquated energy system. France may have plunged all of Italy into a blackout larger than the one experienced in the US earlier this summer. Link. What do you think needs to be done across the world to update the energy system?
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
Maybe decentralization or greater redundancy. Just off the top of my head. Anything else would probably require major overhaul.
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nztrekkie
Lieutenant
jschmitty
Sep 28 2003, 11:45 AM
Looks like the US isn't the only country with an antiquated energy system. France may have plunged all of Italy into a blackout larger than the one experienced in the US earlier this summer. Link. What do you think needs to be done across the world to update the energy system?

well, in NZ, where private companies have only had their hands on our essential servies for a decade or so, there is enough of the old State run infrastructure left so as to make it highly unlikey we'll ever have a major outage.

you see, out systems, set up under govt control decades ago, still only operate at an average 90% of capacity - therefore, there is always another 10% spare capacity to cope with spikes or high demands.

Whilst I firmly believe in private enterprise - having a business of my own - there are some things (essential services like power, water etc) that should not be in the hands of profit driven enterprises.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
"nztrekkie
Posted on Sep 28 2003, 06:54 PM "
there is enough of the old State run infrastructure left so as to make it highly unlikey we'll ever have a major outage.

you see, out systems, set up under govt control decades ago, still only operate at an average 90% of capacity - therefore, there is always another 10% spare capacity to cope with spikes or high demands.


Our electrical infrastructure here is based on set-ups by public utilities as well. I think there are still some areas (not sure though) that have not been opened to competition. Our problem really stems from an outdated infrastructure. There is more demand than many of these systems can handle these days when demand spikes. We do not have a reserve available in some of our highest population centers. We have had folks who lobby against new power plants in their communities. They figure we need it, but can build them in someone else's neighborhood. Want to build a nuclear power plant? Get ready for major environmental group resistance. Enviro groups here have even been known to protest plans to set up wind or solar generation facilities (because no matter where you build here you are bound to find some critter or plant that someone has to save).
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Odd, I was under the impression that the problem occurred in Switzerland when network control brokedown (human error or an actually physical breakdown).

Seems very odd that a country as large (population wize and industry wize) as Italy can such a huge reliance on commercially bought electricity.

Doesn't Italy have any power generation capacity of its own ?

(ie gas turbine or nuclear power, geothermal or wind power ?)

Why is that countries with privatized as opposed to public funded and controlled power generation such as USA, Canada, Italy, UK seem to have such problems garanteeing supply to their communities ? Insufficient investment in power infrastructure and exceptionally poor maintenance and future planning seems to the problem.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
My personal opinion (and please send me hatemail) is that critical public utilities such as power generation should not be in the hands of private owners, it should be publically owned and controlled for the benefit of the community at large and controlled by government authorities.

This is largely the case in Australia and effective planning and maintenance of the generation system and grid state and nationwide is the result.

The problem with private ownership of power generation and grid systems is that the driving force is the profit motive and as a result expensive hardware such as new powerstations and grid upgrades and necessary maintenance poorly handled and often skimped on. The result is major power outages and major disruption to customers and society.

How many more of the huge power outages is going to take before the state and federal goverments realise that they must take control of and responsibility for this most essential product ?
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ds9074
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Admiral
There was a big outage in London as well recently. Almost the whole tube network shut down and a lot of people lost power. It seems very odd that this should be happening in all these different locations. Perhaps its something sinister we are not being told about. Or it could be that the infrastructure built in the electricity boom of the post-WW2 years is nearing the end of its useful life (50 years).
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benetil
Unregistered

I've had the same suspicion/question, ds9074. The massive power grid failures what we've seen in North America and Europe just seem to have happened too close to the same time to be purely coincidental, in my opinion.

It has made me wonder if either someone is testing a new weapon designed to knock out power grids or the terrorists are preparing for their next stunt - ? -.
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