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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 24 2003, 04:40 PM (1,009 Views) | |
| nztrekkie | Sep 24 2003, 04:40 PM Post #1 |
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Lieutenant
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3135932.stm bill - see the reference to not even "minute" amounts of WMD have been found. this makes things much worse than ever - not only does it seem that these (supposed) WMD were NOT moved or destroyed, but they NEVER EVER existed AT ALL. As bill says, if the WMD were destroyed, tiny remnants of them would still exist. If they were moved or hidded - after being made in the first place - these same remnants would still exist too = but they don't. No one has found a bean. key word of article - ridicule. |
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| mrbastard | Sep 24 2003, 06:14 PM Post #2 |
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Lieutenant
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oh my, we have grown confident, haven't we? :rolleyes: I'm confident that it annoys you that whilst some around here subscribe to the anti-US/England diatribe the left have been peddling since the end of the cold war, most people are chuffed to bits that Saddam has departed, and that Iraq shall soon be the catalyst of democracy in the middle east, which shall surely spread freedom and prosperity to the oppressed and brainwashed peoples of the Arab world. The only people who will lose as a result of Saddam being toppled are the mullahs and ayatollahs who rule through fear and religion. So, the English speaking peoples defeated the nazi's; we defeated the communists; we are on the verge of defeating the Islamic fanatics. B) As Bill Goldberg would say: Who's next?
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 24 2003, 06:25 PM Post #3 |
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UberAdmiral
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I saw it, and I think it is ONCE AGAIN the BBC being deliberately misleading. (Read my lips, NZ... I THINK THEY ARE LYING.) Consider the source... banned from British warships for LYING about events during the Gulf War, but sitting on a reputation based from World War II. Even the New York Times had credibility sixty years ago. I want you to actually use your brain for a minute, NZ. I know it'll be hard, with those rose-colored glasses and all, but try. Considering he (Saddam) has had them in the past, stockpiled them, and USED THEM on Kurds and Iranians, "no trace" is nothing more than complete and utter bull$h!t. I thought better of you.
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| nztrekkie | Sep 24 2003, 06:56 PM Post #4 |
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Lieutenant
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maybe they should go look for traces in Iran then and see if they get a result ? (just an attempt at using my brain bill) |
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| mrbastard | Sep 24 2003, 07:03 PM Post #5 |
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Lieutenant
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I totally agree. The English speaking alliance should invade Iran as soon as possible, remove their fanatical dictat like we did in Baghdad, and in doing so liberate a brainwashed and oppressed people, whilst at the same time removing a distinct threat to western interests, and blatant supporters of international terrorism. You know, NZ, you're learning! :lol: |
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| ImpulseEngine | Sep 24 2003, 11:24 PM Post #6 |
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Admiral
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Look, I'm basically in agreement with you that I don't expect WMD to be found and I do believe that's a matter of concern. But... The fact is, it still has been a fairly short amount of time that they have been looking. It's been what, about 5 months? Now, in the past I pointed out that even a couple of months was far too long given that we supposedly knew exactly where they were according to Rumsfeld. However, since I already pointed that out, I don't see why I should keep pointing it out. The fact is, if they are really buried somewhere, it will take time to find them. So I'll wait and see. I fully expect nothing to be found, but who knows, I could be wrong. In the meantime, must we hear this same point on a weekly basis? :angry: :rolleyes:
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| somerled | Sep 25 2003, 05:08 AM Post #7 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Wait on just a few moments ..... there were plenty of posts made by ianinoz in the other place that now look totally vindicated ..... maybe AdmiralBill should pay some attention to what's happened and perhaps admit that ianinoz was right afterall. Why do you find it so hard to accept that the world was mislead (or even lied to) in order to buildup the public paranoia and fear of a threat that was non-existant. How much damage has this done to Bush's , Blaire's and Howard's credibility ..... plenty I think. I for one don't like being lied to. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 25 2003, 08:32 AM Post #8 |
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UberAdmiral
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Neither do I. I'm curious, somerled (whoever you are)... would you be willing to say you are wrong when they are found? Iraq is a large country (the size of California), and as I've said ad nauseum... you could fit ALL of the WMDs Saddam CLAIMED to have inside a large warehouse. Another monkeywrench in the works is that some WMDs might have been moved to other locations, like the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon, which is controlled by groups like Hamas. Not entirely off topic, but did you hear about the German farmer who was tilling his land when the ground broke under his tractor and he found a squadron of old Luftwaffe planes? Hell, searching an airbase we found a squadron of MiG-25s outside of Baghdad. It is very easy to conceal. Still, I think the BBC is lying. Their anti-war agenda lends a shred of truth to this claim... publishing from an "unnamed source" with nothing to back it up. Yeah, right. |
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| Fesarius | Sep 25 2003, 08:38 AM Post #9 |
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Admiral
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Luftwaffe--now that's a word I haven't thought of recently. Admiral (et al.), What constitutes a squadron? My son plays this action-packed army game that has squadrons in them. He asked me *how many* planes a squadron typically has, and I couldn't answer him. Is there a typical number? |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 25 2003, 08:42 AM Post #10 |
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UberAdmiral
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Good question... I don't rightly know (I was in subs, not planes). I'd like to say between six and twelve, based on carrier aircraft, but I could be wrong. |
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| Fesarius | Sep 25 2003, 08:46 AM Post #11 |
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Admiral
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Admiral, Thanks. Have you seen (or can you please post) those incredible pics of Isabel taken off of a Navy ship? I received them as an attachment this morning, but can't get them to post on this Board. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 25 2003, 09:06 AM Post #12 |
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UberAdmiral
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No, haven't seen them. Do you know the source? It might be easier to set up links to the source of the pics (AP, or wherever) by copying the URL. Fortunately, Isabel will most likely be our last hurricane of the year. |
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| somerled | Sep 25 2003, 09:40 AM Post #13 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Well Bill, what credible evidence is there for caches of WMB in Lebanon, Syria or where ever else you seem to think the Iraqis shifted them to in the lead up to the latest war ? (All this under saturation observation by spy satellites, and with close scutiny by sundry intelligence agencies (USA's, UK's , Isreali, Russian, French and who knows who else's), doesn't seem that likely to me. And hay ..... Iraq isn't that big a country and if there are , were WMD there detectable residues would have been found in soils, ground waters and in nearby inhabitants. Why has not even a trace been found ? I have even seen some commenting that some of this weapons were moved to Iran ( mortal enemies of the Bathists ). Perhaps the Bathist regime conducted a very elaborate ruse and permitted the world (and more particularly the USA , UK , Iran and Israel think they had effective and large WMD programs as deterent to offensive military action by these powers ..... and dug themselves so deeply into a hole of deceit and lies and misinformation that they couldn't get themselves out of in time to avert the invasion. When is the interrim report due to publishing ? Will make interesting reading and I guess a lot of people will never accept its findings if they are contrary to their beliefs , opinions or dogma. Lets consider the FACTS when they become available and not get our knickers in a knot too soon. Plenty of time for argument then. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Sep 25 2003, 10:53 AM Post #14 |
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UberAdmiral
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What credible evidence is there that there are NO caches of WMDs? A BBC report? I've already dissected their agenda, and I stand fast when I accuse them of lying. Saturation observation by spysats? Man, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but there are not a whole lot of spy satellites in orbit. Of the Keyhole series, there are only three left (they have the capabilities of high image resolution pictures). There are a few others in low orbit, but without the capabilities the KH series has. Add the other countries and you might have a dozen in varying orbits (changing an orbit so that it crosses a certain area takes fuel, which is in short supply, so it just doesn't happen often). The rest of them are in orange slice orbits. Do you have any idea how big Iraq is?? Seriously. Not that big a country, my a$$! It is 2/3 the size of Texas, and if you've ever been here, you'd know this state is HUGE. Iraq is 500 miles from east to west and 600 miles from north to south at greatest widths. One hundred and seventy thousand SQUARE MILES. You are still basing your "fact" of no detectable traces on a fallacious BBC article based on an UNNAMED SOURCE. I have never said that WMDs were moved to Iran (even though Iraq sent 100 MiG-29s there the same night the air war started in 1991), but Lebanon. Still, who is to say that arrangements weren't made? Have you ever heard of the phrase, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" before? Perhaps Saddam did conduct an elaborate ruse. Well, he was that believeable that people such as Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy have claimed that Saddam had them (Ted as recently as August 2002). His tough luck. He played chicken and lost. I have no idea when an interim report is going to be published. I'm not a government official nor am I clairvoyant. As I've said before, these things take time, and the problem with too many people is that they are spoiled and impatient. It will come out when it comes out. As for accepting findings based on beliefs, opinion, or dogma, are YOU ready to accept the report (whenever it appears) if it shows evidence of WMD. Have you ever thought that if the Bush Administration was afraid that there were no WMDs, that they would have magically manufactured evidence already? Again, who are you? |
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| somerled | Sep 26 2003, 11:18 AM Post #15 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Plenty of geophysics and earth-studying sats in orbit (with plenty of resolution to pick out suspictous vehicle movements - you wouldn't need to be able to read newspaper from orbit to see shinangigans going on and observing in IR and UV bands would be useful anyway (can see at night and can pick out functioning plants and consentrations of materials and perhaps airborn plumes)). These can easily pick out terrestrial features only less than a metre in diameter which would have been plenty to observe what was going on. Plus there were all those USA and UK fighters patroling too. 600 miles top - bottom or side to side is not very big , but I guess it's a matter of one's concept of what is big or small ( New South Wales is lots bigger than Iraq and is not very big as states go in Australia). |
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