| We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Counseling a Brother | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 11:17 PM (1,766 Views) | |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 11 2012, 11:17 PM Post #1 |
|
How about a Voyager Movie
|
Well I have been away from this board for a while but its still the only online place I can trust because I know so many of you. This question is for men, but womens input is also quite welcome. my brother Ed is going through a divorce. How do you help a man when you listen to his situation and don't know what to tell him? In my case my brother is dealing with huge issues which are all complicated by (in my mind) the differences in how I might respond to them and how he is responding to them. More accurately, he is digesting them differently than I would. Furthermore I am very quite certain I cannot relate to his state of mind. Whenever I talk to him this is obvious. I have no dog in this fight, obviously I care for him and want to be there for him but not to be dispatched or ignored. I willingly undertake the drama to be supporting but wonder if I am even heard. I just want the man to think outside of his experience. I want him to Listen. Sometimes when we Pray we listen, but when we need something, a nugget, something, we don't listen. Even worse Ed's pond stem cancer is getting to him slowly. He has lost so much weight he looks like a shell of his former dude self. How can you advise a man whom you cannot relate to, talk to, understand or ....what else is there? Should I just be a good listener? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Swidden | Apr 12 2012, 12:51 AM Post #2 |
|
Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
|
Being a good listener is the best place to start. I don't know if there are nieces and/or nephews involved, but frankly, if there are they should be foremost in your mind. If you have any advice for your brother all you can hope for is that he is open to hearing it. In the middle of something like this their own personal pain prevents them from seeing anything beyond that. By listening well you will learn best what you need to say. Not just carte blanche support, but be willing to tell him when you think he's being a horse's @$$ too. He may not like it, but if you are honest with him (hopefully down the road) he will appreciate it. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 13 2012, 10:36 PM Post #3 |
|
How about a Voyager Movie
|
wow I guess active topics in here has passed 24 hrs. Thanks Swid for the comments. Obviously his children have always been the paramount concern but if I am losing or have lost my connection with him how might I ever help him? This is what concerns me. I guess its tough to impossible to recieve feedback when you are attacked from all sides, personal betrayal, financial destruction, spiritual chaos and general apathy for even continuing onward. How do you be supportive for him? What the fuck can be said? When you try and mean it you meet the painfull truth that you cant matter. Its harsh because its not just a week or a month but years. Emotioinal and phsycological distress is not quantifiable from the listener to the subject. My God how do you help? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 16 2012, 05:34 PM Post #4 |
|
UberAdmiral
|
Being there is a start. It may just be that he isn't ready to talk YET. Letting him know you're there is a good foundation. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Hoss | Apr 17 2012, 08:57 AM Post #5 |
![]()
Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
|
You see Ray, whenever this gets too frustrating, I eventually come back to the realization that I don't really matter. When I get back there, it all starts making sense again (don't believe me, ask a divorce attorney). |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Swidden | Apr 17 2012, 06:03 PM Post #6 |
|
Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
|
The person really has to be open to accepting help. Sometimes people in crisis situations don't want help, they just want a "yes man" to reinforce what they are thinking and feeling (i.e. Him: "Am I right?", You: "Yeah bro, you're right!"). When it is a family member, I think, it is even harder for them to want you to be objective; after all, you're blood kinfolk. God knows I have learned the hard way where my only sibling is concerned that I should never really give them what I really think. One of my brother's-in-law, on the other hand, has been a very good friend for over 30 years and our relationship is built on the very idea that we each are the one person that is going to tell the other what he really need to hear whether the other likes it or not. Bluntly. If it hurts feelings, too damn bad, we know it comes from the right place and that it will all be good on the other side... One thing you can probably tell your brother, and hopefully it helps him see where you're coming from, is that you still love him even if you're telling him something he may not want to hear. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Dandandat | Apr 18 2012, 08:37 AM Post #7 |
|
Time to put something here
|
Don’t say anything … sometimes advice is not what people need or want. And in those times when you do get advice that you don’t need it or want, the advice (the conversation) can feel just as painful as the turmoil that you’re going through. Because not only do you have your turmoil to deal with, but now you have to deal with it publicly and feel as if you are burdening others with your problems and maybe even getting their pity. I’d say just be a brother like you would be if your brother wasn’t having problems. Have him over for a BBQ and throw back a few beers. Treat him like he isn’t a problem and that might go a far longer way than any advice you could give him. The truth is, assuming the intelligence level between you and your bother is similar and you had similar upbringing, he has already contemplated all the advice you might give him on his own. He has to deal with this problems 24/7 and the mind is always churning and giving itself advice. So were you might think he’s not listening to you; its more that he’s already thought of that advice at length and dismissed it for what ever reason. You should tell him once that you’re there for him in whatever capacity you are willing to be; A shoulder to cry on, financial, room and board, ect. And then don’t speak of it again until he does; than listen to what he has to say and give your encouragement and advice on the smaller scale of the particular item he is talking about that day. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 19 2012, 12:12 AM Post #8 |
|
How about a Voyager Movie
|
Thanks Daunte and LeSwid for your comments. This has gone better than I expected since I am an anti facebook social media hater. This is not something new of topic for me but with my brother it has been ongoing. I think its been two full years of suffering. Let me ask this of all of you. Do you know what its like to be phsycologically destroyed? To have your identity and life in one hand and then have it pulled out with no reason why, then 6 months to a year later again, then it makes even less sense, you have devoted your existence to resolution but it has not come. Betrayal by your spouse. Its basically an identity crisis with your children involved. How do you reconcile your life situation without your faith? His faith was tied to his marrige and his steadfast belief of his covenant of marrige. The cold hard truth is that if you have a Penis (yes its worth caps) then your rights are ordered by the sins of your Fathers. The courts will allow a phillandering wife all benefits the law provides. Even if you did nothing wrong. Ever. I see this has changed him to a point where I worry about him yet cannot counsel him on scripture becauce he cuts me off, he already knows it. I love the man but I dont know how to help him next. Anybody have any thoughts? Women please help.... |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Minuet | Apr 19 2012, 08:04 AM Post #9 |
|
Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
|
From what you have said I want to comment on your referral to the courts. I am making an assumption that this comment has something to do with custody of the children. If I am wrong let me know. If the courts have not assigned him custody it probably has more to do with his health then anything else. His wife sounds like a B from your description. What woman would leave a sick husband? However, his illness was probably the deciding factor in any custody hearing. How can he take care of children if he is sick? What if he dies? (Sorry to say that - but we are talking about cancer here - I do hope he improves). Do they want the children bouncing from home to home based on his day to day health - or do they want one place that is steady? I can definitely see the court's POV on this. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Hoss | Apr 19 2012, 10:00 AM Post #10 |
![]()
Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
|
The family courts, at least around here, are very feminist and this is mainly because there have been so many dead-beat men out there spoiling it for the decent guys. This is not necessarily legislated, but it is in effect a reality. The man is generally treated with a presumed guilt and the woman is treated as the assumed best parent. I have spoken to multiple lawyers and people who have endured the system before. I have a 50/50 deal as it was agreed by both of us, and I'm lucky to get it. My lawyer basically said that I could pay her $15k and not get anything better. But even with 50/50, her 50 is a lot sweeter than my 50 as I am still on the hook for various financial obligations, including the majority of the financial responsibilities for the kids (and her), as a punishment for going to work every day and having a good job. In addition to this, my tax brackets have changed for the government's favor and my child tax credits are removed as punishment for earning too much and plus none of the money that goes away from me is tax deductible. So, I am also getting quite the financial gang-raping from all governments Federal down to local + a divorce. So, it is a good thing that no-good, responsible working guys like me get things like stock bonuses so I can sell them all and send the money to the government even after I payed 31% tax on them in the first place. Why should I deserve any of the f**ing money that I earn. And don't get me started on the housing market that have further depleted my assets and how I have an irresponsible govt. to thank for that. So, according to people like President Obama, I am rich. Even though I live in a lower middle-class house and drive an 8 year old economy car and spend almost all of my money on children and an exwife with the maturity of a teenager, I am rich and should be paying heavy, heavy taxes. And my kids are suffering because they need full-time attentive parents and right now they have a half-time attentive parent and one that mainly ignores them as she has fun with her social life and that is really the best thing according to the courts. And there isn't one damned thing that I can do about it, but try to be the best parent I can be in the time that I have. But in the end, I realize that I deserve all of this punishment. I willingly got married and should be severely punished for that lapse in judgement. When you do stupid things, you get punished, and it is incredibly stupid for a man to get married so I am getting what I deserve and learning my lesson well. I know that what I want or need doesn't really matter in all of this and I am mainly just trying to avoid f***ing up my kids any worse than I already have. And so yes, I am "Ed". Edited by Hoss, Apr 19 2012, 10:42 AM.
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Dandandat | Apr 19 2012, 02:13 PM Post #11 |
|
Time to put something here
|
Jaggs, I can personally identify with what your brother is going through; it's not a great feeling to be sure, but it’s also not something you can fully relate to unless you've gone through it yourself. I can certainly understand why your having trouble relating to your brother and why he has trouble accepting your help. And yes its very troubling that the family court system is sexist when it comes to children and even the whole of the divorce proceedings. I can appreciate why it got that way, but now in the 21fst century its time to balance things out. A man shouldn’t have to choose between fighting tooth and nail for his rights (both alienating his children and making a relationship with the ex untenable) and having an equal say and access to the children. There is something very broken in a system that makes families (even divorced ones) fight with each other. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 19 2012, 06:57 PM Post #12 |
|
How about a Voyager Movie
|
Clarification time. Ed is my brother and went through his divorce 9 years ago and is terminal with his brain ponds cancer. Jason is not Ed though I have been talking about Jason. He chose to out himself in the thread not me. I have no other outlet but this place that is as compfortable and trustworthy. Even if some of you irritate me I still remember thigs you have said that made me smile and laugh. I met this board because of a friend of Bill Selby 8472(total chumpness factor since 8247 was available but since STdotcom he kept it mistake we all know and accept it). I then met(Jason) 38957.... really a lame board name its the ass end of his work phone number. Dude dammit really? Anyway I solicited THE AdBill GOMEC while I lived in Houston to meet and he wisely declined the offer. I was working in Houston and spoke to someone I have respect for named Jan***** whom I will not reveal unless she does first , by way of the Hotel computer. I remember that Datas Head went to frost po*****. I am still troubled with envy over LeSwids Half Dome trek and Adbills grilled pizza. I miss CPAu and 24fan. He was a sketchy raskal and she was spuky as all get out. She once flat out posted for me to go F k myself. Damn that was harsh and refreshing too. I was in Dallas at the time in training but at the Hotel computer around Nick Berg beheading time. Back to topic as harsh as this this sounds, Our friendship has been detoured by tragic violence known as divorce. read the guys comments above. quote and stuff: I willingly got married and should be severely punished for that lapse in judgement. When you do stupid things, you get punished, and it is incredibly stupid for a man to get married so I am getting what I deserve and learning my lesson well. End mother scratching quote and stuff. I can neither embrace nor subscribe to nor invigorate nor agree with nor support, sustain or in any way endorse that point of view. ever. period. My marrige is the splendor of my life, without it I beg for the burning slug in my forehead. Jason is a better man than I am because I know what he goes through and at some point you cant hear anymore. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| 24thcenstfan | Apr 19 2012, 07:46 PM Post #13 |
|
Something Wicked This Fae Comes
|
Really? That was bitchy of me. I don’t remember doing that to you, but do remember saying that to another member here. LOL. Anyway, I'm around here sometimes. You can usually find me at KOT. In general, I’ve always liked your sense of humor and hope to see you around sometime. As far as the original topic is concerned and some of the other comments you have made, pain of the heart is something that is not easily fixed or consolable. He (Hoss) will heal in time, but he may feel like the world is crashing down on him for a while. Divorce is a nasty business. My parents divorced when I was a young teenager. They were toxic for each other, which had a negative effect on the family. So a divorce for them was actually something I supported. Still, a broken family affects all those involved in tangible and intangible ways (some long lasting effects). Ultimately, everyone just has to do the best they can and eventually things will work themselves out. In other words, one day at a time and all that good stuff. Sorry to hear about your divorce Hoss. Life is truly crap sometimes. Try not to lose hope though and never let your girls forget that you love them no matter what. Hand write them letters, and encourage them to do the same. Give them a big pack of cute stationary/stamps for use. If things are as unstable as you say they are with your ex, then this will provide them with an outlet, keep a line of communication open between you and them and leave a paper trail. [/End unsolicited advice]. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Swidden | Apr 19 2012, 08:35 PM Post #14 |
|
Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
|
Hoss, all I can say is that having been familiar with you as long as I have been, I hope things get better soon. If you do want advice or just a friendly ear we are bunch here that is pretty good for that. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Apr 19 2012, 09:38 PM Post #15 |
|
How about a Voyager Movie
|
I would be remiss not to give testimony to the Father Hoss is to his two girls. That is the one thing his situation has not not squeezed from his cold nearly dead hand. In all of our conversations for 2 years the focus, the emphasis, the concern, the bottom line has always been the two girld. My man is a steadfast rock of incorrigable truth. He has a heart of splendor and turmoil. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · O Brother, Where Art Thou? · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2




11:32 AM Jul 13