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| A Keynesian Fantasy - A Fiscal Nightmare | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2008, 01:32 PM (596 Views) | |
| whitestar | Dec 7 2008, 10:31 AM Post #16 |
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Captain
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Public transport aye? what if the public transport system in your neck of the woods is poor? I always thought it was a right of passage for young Americans to own a car (if they earn it), it is here. Eat modestly? what the hell does that mean, if you work for a living you should at LEAST be able to provide food for yourself. Learn your place? I got a good system, me boss, you employee, don't like it there's the door. Gain character? you mean like in times of adversity? if a person is working and you live within your means.. is that adversity? or are you advocating poor wages to teach character to young adults Edited by whitestar, Dec 7 2008, 10:39 AM.
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Dec 7 2008, 11:12 AM Post #17 |
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UberAdmiral
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Oh, so in other words an employer must pay what the employee thinks he deserves so he can buy stuff? A rite of passage is not the same thing as a "right." Eat modestly means you don't blow your dough on junk food and liquor. You learn the difference between a "night out" and "every day's a party, bra!" Yes, learn your place. This means that you aren't special. Oh the horror! You start at the bottom and work your way up, just as your seniors did. The world does not owe you a living or a lifestyle. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2008, 11:37 AM Post #18 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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First off, WHITESTAR, I don't like the tone of your comments. It's unnecessarily confrontational. Second, WHITESTAR, this is where I live... not you. I'll pay my employees what I think is fair. Not you. I'll pay my employees what the market I LIVE IN can bear, not what you think is fair. Third, I rode a bicycle to and from work for 5 years in rain and snow and triple-digit temperatures, and I did all of that in my 20's. If a 19 year old is so spoiled that they cannot take a city bus when available or a bicycle when they must, then they obviously are not dedicated to the job enough to work for me. Forth, eating modestly means not eating at McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, or any other fast food. The $4 to $6 spent on one meal at one of those places can buy you 2 weeks worth of Raman Noodles, or a weeks worth of Kraft Mac and Cheese, or a loaf of bread and some sandwich meat. I'm actually kinda PO'd I'm having to sit here and explain to you, obstensively an adult, what being modest and frugal in your food purchases actually means. Fifth, learning your place is to learn you aren't soooooo damn important that you're going to make $50,000 a year right out of college or $30,000 right out of high school. And btw, $10 per hour is about $20K annually. It's not enough to spend money eating out all the time, but it's more than enough to live on. Sixth, I really hate how you're twisting the concepts of gaining character into a negative. A person can have a negative character, and they probably did bad things to gain it, but gaining character has nothing to do with adversity, although it can come about as a result of adversity. Gaining positive character can also come about by living within your means and delaying things, material or otherwise, until a later date. Gaining positive character can come about by doing the right thing in the face of taking the easy, but nefarious path. There are many things that help a person develop good character traits, one of the best is things in reaching that is a good work ethic coupled with hard work. |
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| RTW | Dec 7 2008, 11:43 AM Post #19 |
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Vice Admiral
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IMO, in this Dwayne vs Whitestar conversation, one point of view represents many of the traits that were great about this country coming out of the great depression. The other represents many of the traits that have led to our current problems and put us on the cusp of another depression.THEN YOU MOVE. There's a saying in some circles here in the states, "excuses are for losers". You don't get rich by focusing on the obstacles. |
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| Intrepid2002 | Dec 7 2008, 12:13 PM Post #20 |
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UNGH!
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Having lived the life of a nineteen year old in the United States of America, it is my opinion that just maybe the best thing that ever happened to this nineteen year old is that he lost this $10 an hour job he was so blessed to have. He's young and will adapt. Whatever his circumstances, he will learn his lesson and move on. Thankfully, he's young enough to rebound. I'm hoping he will consider furthering his education if he isn't already so he won't be at the mercy of people who offer these $10 jobs. No disrespect intended. We don't know the life circumstances of this young man, they weren't presented in this case. So I think it is unfair to make assumptions about him as well. For all we know he is a hard working American taking a hit due to the worsened economy, for all we know, it could be quite the opposite but it's not his fault. Where the h*ll will the money come from? Where it's came from before probably. BTW, I'm offering a friendly suggestion that we don't let the conversation get too confrontational or heated. |
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| Intrepid2002 | Dec 7 2008, 12:14 PM Post #21 |
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UNGH!
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For some people, getting "rich" isn't the primary goal in life. |
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| RTW | Dec 7 2008, 12:35 PM Post #22 |
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Vice Admiral
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You don't acquire the means to live a comfortable life style in which you can adequately provide for your loved ones by focusing on obstacles. The choices are the same for all of us. Figure it out ourselves or allow the government to provide a harsh life of poverty. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2008, 12:41 PM Post #23 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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And you wanna talk about not being confrontational? This kid is not at my mercy. None of my employees are at my mercy. We are all at the mercy of people who believe the business people of the United States are a limitless cash cow to fund their various and sundry social projects and experiments. If I didn't have to help pay for that crap through taxes, I could increase the hourly wage of the boy making $10 per hour by about $2.50 per hour easily. This kid is fresh out of high school and didn't want to go straight to college, because he had no clue what to do in college. His life was without direction, and I gave him direction. And for the record, he was laid off, not because of a bad economic situation in Wichita, Kansas (the economy is doing pretty good in Wichita), but due to the expectation of tax increases. As a business owner I either have to reduce my expenses in order to save to cash to pay increased taxes or I have to increase my revenues in order to have the money to pay those taxes. It's as simple as that. Well, in my business, payroll is the biggest expense I have, and my market plan dictates my rates, so I don't want to raise them too much. There is no third way here, except to do both, which is exactly what I've done... I laid off the kid, and increased my rates. Edited by Dwayne, Dec 7 2008, 12:44 PM.
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| RTW | Dec 7 2008, 01:04 PM Post #24 |
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Vice Admiral
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Oh Dwayne, PUH-leeze. We're fully aware of how you small-business types send out your goons in the dark of night to kidnap helpless teens for enslavement in your evil capitalist machines! *maniacal laugh* |
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| STC | Dec 7 2008, 01:23 PM Post #25 |
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Commodore
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Yes, I pay the top rate. No whitestar, I haven't received any PM's from you , I remember you've had this problem before.I wonder if its worth you opening a new account to see if that works? Also, you might want to PM Wichita about this, (or if she reads this), maybe she could post a support ticket with Invision?
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| Intrepid2002 | Dec 7 2008, 04:50 PM Post #26 |
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UNGH!
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No, please don't misinterpret my post. I'm not being confrontational at all, just stating a point of view. As I said before, no disrespect intended. As I said before, he was blessed to have a $10 an hour job. As for direction you gave him, he being layed off may have been the best thing you have done for him. It will make him realize that a college education may be the best way to avoid working for $10 an hour. In some sense, by you being his "bread and water" he is at your mercy. With one fell swoop, as a small business owner you do have the choice of whether you keep him or not and to lay him off based on "an expectation" of tax increases (not an actual one as of yet) is a scary proposition. So you say the business in Wichita, Kansas is doing well. Is it safe to assume your business is doing well? Or is your business not doing well enough to support the salary of 19 year old working part time/full time for you? Can this young man claim unemployment? Is he going to? Again, not being confrontational, just asking. |
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| Intrepid2002 | Dec 7 2008, 05:02 PM Post #27 |
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UNGH!
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You sure don't. You overcome them. Usually by busting your rear end getting an education, working two or three jobs AND living beneath your means. But that's the way I did it, am doing it and I am comfortable but it's not my primary goal in life to be monetarily "rich". Just stating a viewpoint. Sure the choices are the same for all of us. No disagreement there. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2008, 06:35 PM Post #28 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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There you go again. You want to say you're simply stating a point of view, but your point of view is devisive and confrontational. You then talk out both sides of your face by in one instance claiming he's blessed to have a $10 per hour job at his age, and then act as if losing a $10 per hour job is the best argument for going to college. The whole premise of the point of view being the opportunity I afford this boy is a pointless and intrinsically worthless endeavor that that would pale in comparison to attending college. No, the fact is I would help this kid pay for college if I could. The fact is, I've already helped pay for some A+ certfication classes for several of my employees, including the one I just laid off. And that kid making $10 per hour now, could be making $40 per hour by the time he's 25 working for me as a technician, but this particular kid wasn't going down that path necessarily. He was way more interested in helping on the administrative side. I had him doing sales. He was effective, but not nearly enough to justify his salary. I'll still use him for a variety of projects and when and if things look ok again, he'll have his job again. One thing people really need to consider is that there are a great number of boys out there who will never adapt successfully to the college environment as it is now presently constituted. These kids are smart enough, but their motivations are different. Small businesses, such as mine, provide young men direction in life. And I'll be ready to pay in 50% of my income, when I see the likes of Charlie Rangle paying his legitimate fair share. |
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| STC | Dec 7 2008, 07:01 PM Post #29 |
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Commodore
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I thought this thread was about fiscal policy
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| Intrepid2002 | Dec 7 2008, 07:37 PM Post #30 |
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UNGH!
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Sorry. I don't consider my point of view divisive or confrontational, just different from yours. If don't want to accept my point of view, acknowledge it or answer any of the questions I sincerely posed to you, that's okay. Please just be aware that some of us are trying to understand where it is you're coming without being hostile with questions and maybe learn something from you. Have a good evening Dwayne. |
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, I remember you've had this problem before.
2:13 PM Jul 11