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So when does that wealth Reredistribution start?; I want my money back
Topic Started: Nov 17 2008, 09:37 AM (326 Views)
Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Quote:
 
Well, here we are, watching financial Armageddon! As the meltdown continues, fired CEOs of financial institutions have claimed millions in bonuses based upon fictitious profits priced by some flawed financial models. Many of these dismissed execs received elaborate severance and retirement benefits totaling in the millions as well. Perversely, fired executives who are responsible for the crises may actually be better off than those who stayed to clean up the mess, and there appears to be little recourse.

Thousands of employees of these firms have lost their jobs and it seems certain that there will be thousands more. Many have lost much of their retirement and investments due to the current devastating bear market. Stockholders in some of these companies have been decimated seeing the value of their holdings decline by more than 80%.

The fabled bailout package has evolved into a strange derivative of its original intent in that none of the $700 billion of the originally congressionally approved bailout money has been spent on any of the securities for which the bailout was designed. It looks as though anyone, including the man with the grinder and the monkey on the street corner, may be eligible for TARP funds, as Treasury Secretary Paulson and his minions expand the bailout program to include just about any possible business.

So what’s the next shoe to drop? Wall Street bonuses! Estimates are that bonuses accrued for employees by the larger financial institutions that received equity from TARP are larger than the actual equity received. Some estimates of these bonuses exceed $100 billion for the group! Does this sound wrong? Isn’t the purpose of this equity injection to shore up the capital position of these institutions? Isn’t the purpose of a bonus to reward exceptional performance?

Yes, bonuses are often paid to employees even in tough years, for retention purposes. And some bonus money is certainly justifiable. But these are certainly not normal times.

There must be a responsibility on the part of management of firms that received the equity infusions to use that capital as capital. Yes, the Treasury is right not to dictate the terms of use for the infusions, but doesn’t it seem ridiculous to be paying out such huge bonuses in an industry that has lost billions and caused the near ruin of the worldwide financial system? And how can the amount to be paid exceed the amount received by the institutions from TARP?

Congress most assuredly will levy a strong objection to this situation. Historically, the salary is only a small percentage of a Wall Streeter’s total compensation, but let’s not confuse a right with a privilege. Wall Street is a risky playground and compensation has in theory always been performance-based.

To assume anything else is just plain wrong. Firms are fighting for their lives, and profits are non-existent. Without the government bailout, it is likely that many of these firms would fail altogether and thousands would have no salary or bonus. No, it is not right that the actions of a relative few have been allowed to decimate the financial condition of so many, but we must be adults in this situation, bite the bullet, and be realistic in our actions and expectations. The future will be bright again, but not without cost now.

http://www.hedgefund.net/publicnews/default.aspx?val=askshadow&story=9467

Edited by Dandandat, Nov 17 2008, 09:41 AM.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Dandandat - I think your title is an unfair swipe at Obama. The bailout is the responsiblity of the current administration. Tying it into the comments about "wealth redistribution" is totally unfair IMO.
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Dwayne
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I went to Bank of America last Wednesday to see about getting some of that bailout money... I actually think I need it more than GM or AIG, because my company's present difficulties are not my doing, but that of a union. The Boeing machinists strike resulted in a work slowdown for Spirit Aerosystems, and that resulted in a work slowdown for my business. Sadly, monthly expenses didn't just go away as a result and I have a sales person I just hired during the summer, but revenue dropped in half and it is totally affecting my ability to stay in business.

Well, now the strike is over, but the ripple effect hasn't caught up with my business and will not do so until January of 2009, but it's really hurting me now.

I hate unions.
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 17 2008, 09:57 AM.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Minuet
 
Dandandat - I think your title is an unfair swipe at Obama. The bailout is the responsiblity of the current administration. Tying it into the comments about "wealth redistribution" is totally unfair IMO


Wow, a little sensitive about Obama are we?

First the bailout is not the "responsibility" of the current administration, it is the responsibility of a lot of people, the most culpable would be the congress.

Second even if the bailout where the "responsibility" of the current administration, your comment makes little to no sense either way as I did not talk about Obama in this thread fairly or unfairly. I understand your desire to make everything about Obama, but his cult of personality issue is being discussed on other thread you should take your fawning there.

Third were my title directed at Obama, it would than be a vote of confidence not an unfair swipe at him; as a his plan to redistribute wealth would see the countries money wrongfully used to pay CEOs bonuses go back to the people.


But besides all of that, why not just stay on topic instead of defending Obama from unfairness that doesn’t even exist.
Edited by Dandandat, Nov 17 2008, 10:01 AM.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dwayne
Nov 17 2008, 09:55 AM
I went to Bank of America last Wednesday to see about getting some of that bailout money... I actually think I need it more than GM or AIG, because my company's present difficulties are not my doing, but that of a union. The Boeing machinists strike resulted in a work slowdown for Spirit Aerosystems, and that resulted in a work slowdown for my business. Sadly, monthly expenses didn't just go away as a result and I have a sales person I just hired during the summer, but revenue dropped in half and it is totally affecting my ability to stay in business.

Well, now the strike is over, but the ripple effect hasn't caught up with my business and will not do so until January of 2009, but it's really hurting me now.

I hate unions.
Unions, hmmm another intresting topic; I thought about starting it but never got around to it.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Yeah, I thought about posting something about unions about 2 weeks ago, but just hadn't yet.

And as far as whines about bailouts as "wealth redistribution" and how it is an "unfair swipe at Obama"... I think foreigners non-Americans who are enthralled with Obama and at the same time aren't aware that in the United States the US Congress (House and Senate) holds the purse strings, really ought to keep their nose out of this argument, because in fact, Obama as part of the Senate is more responsible for the creation of this bailout money than the current administration.
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 17 2008, 10:19 AM.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dwayne
Nov 17 2008, 10:16 AM
Yeah, I thought about posting something about unions about 2 weeks ago, but just hadn't yet.
I wrote something up for another board, Ill see if I can find it and post it here.
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HistoryDude
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Shaken, not stirred...
re-opened

Dwayne - Please cease with telling us what you think non-Americans should or shouldn't do. We all have the right to comment in each and every thread. This Board has addressed this issue before. Your comment can easily be interpreted as baiting.

Minuet - Please stay on topic. Dandandat explained his use of the title and it sounds perfectly reasonable.

To anyone wishing to post in this thread - Please no more snipping.
Edited by HistoryDude, Nov 17 2008, 12:00 PM.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I'm thinking of putting my millions and millions (of yen) into peanut butter futures. That way they'll stick to the roof of my mouth.
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fireh8er
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I'm Captain Kirk!
Moderator Comment

Dwayne,

I have asked you before to keep those types of comments yourself. Sistertrek has an international group of members. Every has the right to an opinion. Not everyone agrees, but that's life. We are here to have a respectful and constructive discussion of all things, including Star Trek.

I am issuing you a warning for baiting. You clearly tried to bait non-Americans into an argument. You may appeal if you wish.

http://s2.zetaboards.com/SisterTrek/single/?p=8021193&t=5028120

End of Moderator Comment
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