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Slightly. Creepy. Cult of personality.
Topic Started: Nov 7 2008, 12:47 AM (844 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
He's a nobody that came out of no where and was never properly vetted. No one knows exactly what this man is going to do... He's a cypher.

Apparently you don't know what a personality cult is either. It really has nothing to do with popularity, but the use of mass media to create a heroic public image using unquestioning flattery and praise.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Ok why don’t we get back on topic:

As an independent (ie not a republican and yes I have the proof) and a centrist I have to say that the following that Obama has garnished does make me uneasy. Not so much the numbers of people, but the mentality of so many. The mentality that would see a foreign country declare a national holiday after a man not of their own country and someone who hasn’t done anything yet. And the mindless chanting really creeps me out as well. The fact that he is such a great orator and that his speeches take on an almost sermon like quality only furthers my discomfort.

I can assure you that this discomfort has nothing to do with my choice of McCain over Obama. In fact had a social conservative had a similar following I would most likely be even more uncomfortable then I am with Obama. With Obama, for me, the discomfort is their but I can easily put it aside, but that does not discount the fact that it is there.

I in fact find it hard to believe, given the history of humanity and how the most evil of the evil have come to power that any one could doubt a legitimate reason why someone would feel discomfort on this issue.

I find it even harder to believe any one could doubt a legitimate reason why someone would feel discomfort on this issue; after 8 years of hearing president bush being labeled the anti-Christ every time he invoked the name of god in his speeches. There is clearly a double standard at play here.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I'm going to ask you again, which definition are you referring to when you call him a cypher?

I understand that you may know nothing about the man. That's just self imposed ignorance. If you are really so concerned, I urge you to check out his books and his website. There is plenty of information about him.

As to being a "nobody" from "nowhere", I'm not sure what you mean by that either. He was born in Hawaii, he went to school at Harvard. Where did you go to college Dwayne?
He spent years helping the poor in Chicago better their lives, and became a Senator. Now I don't really know what you have achieved in your life.
From what I understand you run a business in Kansas. Kudos for you.
But what Idon't understand where you get off calling a Senator a "nobody" and Hawaii "nowhere".
Who fits the criteria for being a "nobody" in your book?
What fits the criteria for being "nowhere" to you?

From what I can glean from your response, you are concerned that nobody knows exactly what he is going to do. That is interesting. Do you know exactly what McCain is going to do? Do you know exactly what you are going to do in the next four to eight years?

I'm honestly really curious about your logic in these statements.
Edited by Dr. Noah, Nov 7 2008, 09:51 AM.
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Dwayne
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Dandandat
Nov 7 2008, 09:36 AM
Ok why don’t we get back on topic:

As an independent (ie not a republican and yes I have the proof) and a centrist I have to say that the following that Obama has garnished does make me uneasy. Not so much the numbers of people, but the mentality of so many. The mentality that would see a foreign country declare a national holiday after a man not of their own country and someone who hasn’t done anything yet. And the mindless chanting really creeps me out as well. The fact that he is such a great orator and that his speeches take on an almost sermon like quality only furthers my discomfort.

I can assure you that this discomfort has nothing to do with my choice of McCain over Obama. In fact had a social conservative had a similar following I would most likely be even more uncomfortable then I am with Obama. With Obama, for me, the discomfort is their but I can easily put it aside, but that does not discount the fact that it is there.

I in fact find it hard to believe, given the history of humanity and how the most evil of the evil have come to power that any one could doubt a legitimate reason why someone would feel discomfort on this issue.

I find it even harder to believe any one could doubt a legitimate reason why someone would feel discomfort on this issue; after 8 years of hearing president bush being labeled the anti-Christ every time he invoked the name of god in his speeches. There is clearly a double standard at play here.
:news:

Spot on.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
OK, Obama's popularity is making Republicans and "centrists" uneasy. I wonder, were you as concerned by Bush's popularity?

I could make the case that a certain cult of personality was created with Bush landing on that aircraft carrier wearing a flight uniform with the "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him when he declared "major combat operations over in Iraq" five years ago.

Did that concern anyone? Just curious.

I understand the bitterness. Republicans just didn't have much to get excited about this election. I can see why the fact that the Democrats are so energized would make them uncomfortable.
Edited by Dr. Noah, Nov 7 2008, 09:59 AM.
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RTW
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Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 08:49 AM
It is possible that Obama being "elusive" the last few days could be attributed to high security. There was already a foiled attempt on his life during the campaign.
Foiled assassination "attempt"? :rolleyes:

No, there wasn't. :no:





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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Assassination Plot Targeting Obama Disrupted

Last Edited: Monday, 27 Oct 2008, 9:28 PM MDT
Created: Monday, 27 Oct 2008, 2:24 PM MDT

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. gestures during a speech at the Canton Civic Center in Canton, Ohio, Monday, Oct. 27, 2008. (AP Photo/Phil Long) SideBar


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By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON -- Two white supremacists allegedly plotted to go on a national killing spree (video: MyFoxMemphis), shooting and decapitating black people and ultimately targeting Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, federal authorities said Monday.

In all, the two men whom officials describe as neo-Nazi skinheads planned to kill 88 people -- 14 by beheading, according to documents unsealed in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Tenn. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The spree, which initially targeted an unidentified predominantly African-American school, was to end with the two men driving toward Obama, "shooting at him from the windows," the court documents show.

"Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt," the court complaint states. "Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

Sheriffs' deputies in Crockett County, Tenn., arrested the two suspects -- Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark. -- Oct. 22 on unspecified charges. "Once we arrested the defendants and suspected they had violated federal law, we immediately contacted federal authorities," said Crockett County Sheriff Troy Klyce.

The two were charged by federal authorities Monday with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

Cowart and Schlesselman are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday. Messages left on two phone numbers listed under Cowart's name were not immediately returned.

No telephone number for Schlesselman in Helena-West Helena could be found immediately.

The court documents say the two men met about a month ago on the Internet and found common ground in their shared "white power" and "skinhead" philosophy.


• ATF Complaint Docket (.PDF file, MyFoxMemphis)

The numbers 14 and 88 are symbols in skinhead culture, referring to a 14-word phrase attributed to an imprisoned white supremacist: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" and to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H. Two "8"s or "H"s stand for "Heil Hitler."

Court records say Cowart and Schlesselman also bought nylon rope and ski masks to use in a robbery or home invasion to fund their spree, during which they allegedly planned to go from state to state and kill people. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the African-American school they were targeting by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, said authorities took the threats very seriously.

"They said that would be their last, final act -- that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

He added: "They seemed determined to do it. Even if they were just to try it, it would be a trail of tears around the South."

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said. He said there's no evidence -- so far -- that others were willing to assist Cowart and Schlesselman with the plot.

At this point, there does not appear to be any formal assassination plan, Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said.

"Whether or not they had the capability or the wherewithal to carry out an attack remains to be seen," he said.

Zahren said the statements about the assassination came out in interviews after the men were arrested last week.

The Secret Service became involved in the investigation once it was clear that an Obama assassination attempt was part of this violent far-reaching plot.

"We don't discount anything," Zahren said, adding that it's one thing for the defendants to make statements, but it's not the same as having an organized assassination plan.

Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.

However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 percent black. "Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.

------

Associated Press writers Erik Schelzig in Nashville, Tenn., Jon Gambrell in Little Rock, Ark., and Eileen Sullivan in Washington contributed to this report.
http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7731918&version=8&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Edited by Dr. Noah, Nov 7 2008, 10:06 AM.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 09:56 AM
OK, Obama's popularity is making Republicans and "centrists" uneasy.
Dr. Noah, why do you have this desire to segregate people in this manner? Why can't we just be people who have opinions?


Quote:
 
I wonder, were you as concerned by Bush's popularity?


Bush's reliance on a religion I don't agree with made me uneasy yes. However I don't recall his popularity being what Osama's is. In fact President Bush appeared to me as the lest popular president we have had in my life time (wrongly I would say, but non the less).
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 08:49 AM
It is possible that Obama being "elusive" the last few days could be attributed to high security. There was already a foiled attempt on his life during the campaign.
:rotfl:


Sorry I missed this; a couple of nutters professing to have a plan to kill Obama with no viable means to tie there show let allow kill the president is hardly something to be concerned about passed apprehending the nutters before they hurt someone at random that they come acorse.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Well, it's clear that Republicans and "centrists" aren't taking it seriously that people were plotting an assasination attempt. Obviously they're nuts. Anyone who wants to take the life of another based on skin color is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic. But the ATF and Secret Service are taking it seriously and an investigation is underway. Therefore, it is possible that security around Obama and his family has been heightened. It's no secret that there are plenty of "nutters" who still entertain themselves by hating black people and plotting their demise.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
The nutters who wanted to kill Obama were completely and totally backwoods, Deliverance-type nut jobs, whereas the moonbats who want to kill Bush are Hollywood celebs.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Really? You have proof of Hollywood celebrities plotting assasination attempts on Bush?

I'd like to see some evidence of this.
Edited by Dr. Noah, Nov 7 2008, 10:28 AM.
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RTW
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It's curious how the people who claim the most education and intelligence also continuously make the simplest mistakes.

A plan/plot is not an attempt.

This overview doesn't even deserve to be called a plan. They knew what they wanted to do, and they had decided that they'd wear white tuxedos and top hats while doing it. That's the plan.

From the article posted, ""We don't discount anything," Zahren said, adding that it's one thing for the defendants to make statements, but it's not the same as having an organized assassination plan."

:rotfl:
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 10:23 AM
Well, it's clear that Republicans and "centrists" aren't taking it seriously that people were plotting an assasination attempt. Obviously they're nuts. Anyone who wants to take the life of another based on skin color is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic. But the ATF and Secret Service are taking it seriously and an investigation is underway. Therefore, it is possible that security around Obama and his family has been heightened. It's no secret that there are plenty of "nutters" who still entertain themselves by hating black people and plotting their demise.
No I don't call them nutters simply because they wanted to assassinate Obama; they are nutters because they realistic thought they could do so yet had no viable way to do so. They where living in a world all their own and not one based on reality. That's what makes them nuts. It is also why I don't take them seriously. Bring me a case of someone who had a viable means to kill Obama yet was foiled and I will be worried for his safety.


Quote:
 
I understand the bitterness. Republicans just didn't have much to get excited about this election. I can see why the fact that the Democrats are so energized would make them uncomfortable.


Sorry Noah; as a centrist who does not have a stake in party politics (other then wanting to see a third party image) I would have to say that this is simply not the case. I would further ask why are so intent on making every issue brought up about Obama one born out of sourer grapes on the part of republicans. It is not your intention to state that Obama can do no wrong and that any issue can’t possibly be real is it?
Edited by Dandandat, Nov 7 2008, 10:31 AM.
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RTW
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Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 10:23 AM
Well, it's clear that Republicans and "centrists" aren't taking it seriously that people were plotting an assasination attempt. Obviously they're nuts. Anyone who wants to take the life of another based on skin color is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic. But the ATF and Secret Service are taking it seriously and an investigation is underway.
Again, from your source, "We don't discount anything," Zahren said, adding that it's one thing for the defendants to make statements, but it's not the same as having an organized assassination plan."

Dr. Noah
Nov 7 2008, 10:23 AM
It's no secret that there are plenty of "nutters" who still entertain themselves by hating black people and plotting their demise.
Yes. And for every one of them there were dozens of leftists who spent the past 8 years entertaining themselves by hating George Bush. ;)
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