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Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism; by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Topic Started: Nov 5 2008, 01:51 PM (422 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure...
Quote:
 
"Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism"
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.

Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76.
Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 5 2008, 01:54 PM.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Obama has never made an anti-zionist statement so I don't know why anyone would think this would get thrown in his face.

Unfortunately Dwayne will not be seeing or responding to this post - but I want to stop any misinformation that he may be spreading here. In fact I would love it if someone else would take the time to challenge Dwayne to come up with any anti-zionist statement ever made by Obama or his "ilk".
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Dr. King
 
...let the truth ring forth...

Yes, let the truth ring forth. That truth is that you (Dwayne) are trying to take comments made by Dr. King and apply today’s opinions on what it means to be anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic to the comments he made over forty years ago. In other words, you are taking his words out of context and trying to twist them to fit your own biased political anti-Obama agenda. When in fact these comments have nothing to do with Obama and the political situation was much different when Dr. King was alive. Attitudes toward Jewish people and the Jewish state were much more bigoted and the various distinctions we make now (e.g. government vs. Religion vs. Ethnicity) were not exactly made in the same way they are now.

Also, the state of Israel was relatively new then, so I can further see how Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism were lumped together into one issue.

Dr. King was also more in tune with the undercurrents of bigotry considering the climate he lived in (and his personal experiences), so equating the two might have been very realistic back then. Its realistic in some cases now (e.g. take Achmadinnerjacket and his hate filled stance against Jewish people/Israel).

Dwayne, you are seriously stretching with this one. Quite sad actually.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
24thcenstfan
Nov 5 2008, 05:20 PM
Dr. King
 
...let the truth ring forth...

Yes, let the truth ring forth. That truth is that you (Dwayne) are trying to take comments made by Dr. King and apply today’s opinions on what it means to be anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic to the comments he made over forty years ago. In other words, you are taking his words out of context and trying to twist them to fit your own biased political anti-Obama agenda. When in fact these comments have nothing to do with Obama and the political situation was much different when Dr. King was alive. Attitudes toward Jewish people and the Jewish state were much more bigoted and the various distinctions we make now (e.g. government vs. Religion vs. Ethnicity) were not exactly made in the same way they are now.

Also, the state of Israel was relatively new then, so I can further see how Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism were lumped together into one issue.

Dr. King was also more in tune with the undercurrents of bigotry considering the climate he lived in (and his personal experiences), so equating the two might have been very realistic back then. Its realistic in some cases now (e.g. take Achmadinnerjacket and his hate filled stance against Jewish people/Israel).

Dwayne, you are seriously stretching with this one. Quite sad actually.
:no: I don't think you'd know the truth if it bit you on the butt, and at the same time, I was able to expose sloppiness by two supposedly informed posters. I still wonder if anyone gets it yet.

People, before responding to anything! posted by me or anyone else on this site, what was posted FIRST requires vetting. Did either of these two do that? No. If either of them had bothered to actually do some basic research before spouting off, their response might be a laugh or something intelligent instead of giving the answers they did.

And not to challenge anyone's religious identity, but I'm also quite surprised someone who professes to be Jewish had no idea what to say in response to this post.



On a side note, coming up with an anti-zionist statement made by Obama's "ilk" is quite easy...
Quote:
 
According to the Times, the Senator’s camp disinvited [Jeremiah] Wright from speaking at Obama’s presidential announcement due to concerns about his Afro-centric teachings and past associations.

“When his enememies found out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Muammar el-Qaddafi, Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.”

http://www.forward.com/articles/10306/

Face the facts people, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright IS one of obama's ilk. Obama attended Wrights' church for 20 years and have had family dinner together frequently, and it was disingenuous to claim he wasn't aware of Wrights comments.


And btw, I stand 100% by my initial statement, "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure..."



Please people, do your basic research before answering one of my posts and quite being such nitpicking contrarians... or leave me alone.

Your choice.
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 5 2008, 06:46 PM.
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Franko
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Shower Moderator


Getting tired of you trying to belittle everyone around here, Dwayne.


You think you've got everything figured out all the time, or that you have a bullet-proof perspective.


Your article is absurd. So is your "commie subversion" thread.


That's all.


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RTW
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Dwayne
Nov 5 2008, 06:43 PM
People, before responding to anything! posted by me or anyone else on this site, what was posted FIRST requires vetting. Did either of these two do that? No. If either of them had bothered to actually do some basic research before spouting off, their response might be a laugh or something intelligent instead of giving the answers they did.
Just for fun, imagine someone else started this thread. How would you respond after thoroughly vetting the post?
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Franko
Nov 5 2008, 08:28 PM

Getting tired of you trying to belittle everyone around here, Dwayne.


You think you've got everything figured out all the time, or that you have a bullet-proof perspective.


Your article is absurd. So is your "commie subversion" thread.


That's all.


Well I guess I have been taken off of "ignore". :rotfl:

And it's quite obvious that although he apparently did read my comments he thoroughly misunderstood what I said. Franko, I want to make one thing clear to you and to Dwayne - I totally agree with the words of Dr. King. I do believe that anti-Zionism is in most cases equivalent to anti-Semitism (I am sure that at least one other poster in this thread won't like that comment, but I don't really care what that individual thinks)

My issue with Dwayne's comments are his attempts to call Obama an anti-Semite where the evidence is totally lacking to back up this accusation. I repeat for everyone's benefit that Obama has NEVER made a comment that was anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic. What Reverend Wright has said is not to be used as a smear because Obama no longer associates with the man.

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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
I think that dwayne is getting very desperate , doesn't he realise that , according to post poll analysis a majority or jewish americans actually voted for Obama's ticket ( I heard this mentioned on Aunti's AM Kimberley Radio program this morning where they were interviewing some Professor of American Political Studies from the USA). Were they stupid to do so ??? I think not.

Obama has said nothing antisemitic or antizionist in anything I have heard him say. Flagging having discussions with Iran is not antizionist or antisemitic either by a very long shot, especially since not having meaningful talks with them has at best achieved nothing , at worse only served to harden the Iranian position on matters such as they think they are entitled to have an influence or contibution to.

Nor do I believe his dragging up King's comments from a long time ago with regards zionism and attempting to somehow link Obama to these to be either supportable or relevant .

In this case I agree with minuet (I do sometimes ....)

That is all I have to say on this matter.

ilk comment - I'd rather be of Obama's ilk than of dwayne's sad ilk.

Edited by somerled, Nov 5 2008, 09:35 PM.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Dwayne
Nov 5 2008, 06:43 PM
24thcenstfan
Nov 5 2008, 05:20 PM
Dr. King
 
...let the truth ring forth...

Yes, let the truth ring forth. That truth is that you (Dwayne) are trying to take comments made by Dr. King and apply today’s opinions on what it means to be anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic to the comments he made over forty years ago. In other words, you are taking his words out of context and trying to twist them to fit your own biased political anti-Obama agenda. When in fact these comments have nothing to do with Obama and the political situation was much different when Dr. King was alive. Attitudes toward Jewish people and the Jewish state were much more bigoted and the various distinctions we make now (e.g. government vs. Religion vs. Ethnicity) were not exactly made in the same way they are now.

Also, the state of Israel was relatively new then, so I can further see how Anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism were lumped together into one issue.

Dr. King was also more in tune with the undercurrents of bigotry considering the climate he lived in (and his personal experiences), so equating the two might have been very realistic back then. Its realistic in some cases now (e.g. take Achmadinnerjacket and his hate filled stance against Jewish people/Israel).

Dwayne, you are seriously stretching with this one. Quite sad actually.
:no: I don't think you'd know the truth if it bit you on the butt, and at the same time, I was able to expose sloppiness by two supposedly informed posters. I still wonder if anyone gets it yet.

People, before responding to anything! posted by me or anyone else on this site, what was posted FIRST requires vetting. Did either of these two do that? No. If either of them had bothered to actually do some basic research before spouting off, their response might be a laugh or something intelligent instead of giving the answers they did.

And not to challenge anyone's religious identity, but I'm also quite surprised someone who professes to be Jewish had no idea what to say in response to this post.



On a side note, coming up with an anti-zionist statement made by Obama's "ilk" is quite easy...
Quote:
 
According to the Times, the Senator’s camp disinvited [Jeremiah] Wright from speaking at Obama’s presidential announcement due to concerns about his Afro-centric teachings and past associations.

“When his enememies found out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Muammar el-Qaddafi, Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.”

http://www.forward.com/articles/10306/

Face the facts people, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright IS one of obama's ilk. Obama attended Wrights' church for 20 years and have had family dinner together frequently, and it was disingenuous to claim he wasn't aware of Wrights comments.


And btw, I stand 100% by my initial statement, "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure..."



Please people, do your basic research before answering one of my posts and quite being such nitpicking contrarians... or leave me alone.

Your choice.
Time that dwayne actually grew up and started acting like a mature man rather than a spoilt and petulant and immature adulescent who thinks he actually knows something.

I know he wont see this post , but I too challenge him produce actual proof to support his allegation , his opinion is not proof and it not worth the pixcel's it is printed in. Failing that for one of sponsors here to product proper evidence - their personal opinions will cut the mustard either as proof.

dwayne made the allegation , why should those do not believe him do his leg work to prove his allegation for him ?

If he is not prepared to produce proper evidence and proof to support his outrageous and sllly claims here and elsewhere then his credibility has got to be zero on these matters.
Edited by somerled, Nov 5 2008, 09:50 PM.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
RTW
Nov 5 2008, 08:33 PM
Dwayne
Nov 5 2008, 06:43 PM
People, before responding to anything! posted by me or anyone else on this site, what was posted FIRST requires vetting. Did either of these two do that? No. If either of them had bothered to actually do some basic research before spouting off, their response might be a laugh or something intelligent instead of giving the answers they did.
Just for fun, imagine someone else started this thread. How would you respond after thoroughly vetting the post?
I would have said, "It's a hoax."

I posted this for three reasons...

1. "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure..." Because people WILL pull out this little essay and use it against Obama.

2. IT'S A FRAUD and I was absolutely curious as to who would fall for it.

3. Lastly, I wanted to see who would actually challenge the fact that Obama has some anti-semitic associates, so that some real facts can be laid on the table.


All of you who jumped out and attacked me, now owe me an apology. I never once attacked obama nor misrepresented Dr. King. I stated categorically, "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure...," and then I provided the essay. No other commentary at all was provided, so any assumption any of you derived was completely of your own making.
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 6 2008, 12:02 AM.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Dwayne
Nov 5 2008, 11:04 PM
RTW
Nov 5 2008, 08:33 PM
Dwayne
Nov 5 2008, 06:43 PM
People, before responding to anything! posted by me or anyone else on this site, what was posted FIRST requires vetting. Did either of these two do that? No. If either of them had bothered to actually do some basic research before spouting off, their response might be a laugh or something intelligent instead of giving the answers they did.
Just for fun, imagine someone else started this thread. How would you respond after thoroughly vetting the post?
I would have said, "It's a hoax."

I posted this for three reasons...

1. "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure..." Because people WILL pull out this little essay and use it against Obama.

2. IT'S A FRAUD and I was absolutely curious as to who would fall for it.

3. Lastly, I wanted to see who would actually challenge the fact that Obama has some anti-semitic associates, so that some real facts can be laid on the table.


All of you who jumped out and attacked me, now owe me an apology. I never once attacked obama nor misrepresented Dr. King. I stated categorically, "This is gonna get thrown in the face of obama and his ilk repeatedly, I'm pretty sure...," and then I provided the essay. No other commentary at all was provided, so any assumption any of you derived was completely of your own making.
Dream on sonny .... your "justification" after being called out doesn't cut it - way too late , no appology to you waranted.

Your credibility, what little of it you had , has been blown.
Edited by somerled, Nov 6 2008, 01:43 AM.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Minuet
Nov 5 2008, 09:02 PM
Franko
Nov 5 2008, 08:28 PM

Getting tired of you trying to belittle everyone around here, Dwayne.


You think you've got everything figured out all the time, or that you have a bullet-proof perspective.


Your article is absurd. So is your "commie subversion" thread.


That's all.


Well I guess I have been taken off of "ignore". :rotfl:

And it's quite obvious that although he apparently did read my comments he thoroughly misunderstood what I said. Franko, I want to make one thing clear to you and to Dwayne - I totally agree with the words of Dr. King. I do believe that anti-Zionism is in most cases equivalent to anti-Semitism (I am sure that at least one other poster in this thread won't like that comment, but I don't really care what that individual thinks)

My issue with Dwayne's comments are his attempts to call Obama an anti-Semite where the evidence is totally lacking to back up this accusation. I repeat for everyone's benefit that Obama has NEVER made a comment that was anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic. What Reverend Wright has said is not to be used as a smear because Obama no longer associates with the man.

Minuet
 
Unfortunately Dwayne will not be seeing or responding to this post - but I want to stop any misinformation that he may be spreading here. In fact I would love it if someone else would take the time to challenge Dwayne to come up with any anti-zionist statement ever made by Obama or his "ilk".


Warning to Minuet for baiting.

Minuet, I have noticed your comments about being ignored in other threads. I am giving you a warning for only this thread, but, if I see you make another comment about being ignored by Dwayne in other threads, I will issue an additional warning for EACH time I see you make the comment in the future.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from ignoring Dwayne as he has ignored you. Therefore, I will have to assume you are deliberately trying to bait him into a response with your comment about being ignored.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
More guilt by association courtesy of the Neo-McCarthyists :news:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
^^^ That's real funny considering all the GBA (guild by association) crapolla your ilk tossed Pres. Bush's way regarding Ken Lay...

Or the bin Laden family...

Or Christianity...

Or... oh, just forget it.

You are being hypocritical.
Edited by Dwayne, Nov 6 2008, 07:53 AM.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Do I have to remind you that I have no ilk?

I am in no way representing whoever you want to blame for whatever is pissing you off today.

You seem to think I am a Democrat. I am not. I am registered Independent. Maybe you ought to refrain from discussing issues you clearly know nothing about.
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