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| Why are so many people in the USA so scared of; Obama and a more inclusive government ? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 2 2008, 10:08 PM (495 Views) | |
| somerled | Nov 2 2008, 10:08 PM Post #1 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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It is my opinion that many americans really do fear the prospect that Obama will be elected in a couple of days , this fear has , and anyone who is honest will agree , racial undertones , and it also has to do with a fear that they may loose something personally and some see Obama's more inclusive policies as something that might be bad for them somehow (the rich and well to do fear anything that looks like wealth redistribution or looks like a socialist policy - ie universial public funded health care for all). It seems to me that Obama will do more good for the majority of americans (a new deal and fairer deal for them) than harm. Discuss. |
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| RTW | Nov 2 2008, 10:48 PM Post #2 |
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Vice Admiral
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Let's ignore the fact that he's the most inexperienced person ever to be a major party candidate. Let's ignore the fact that he's the most liberal major party candidate ever. Let's ignore everything he has said and done in the past that contradict everything he is saying now. Let's ignore all his past associations that would be a career killer for anyone else and prevent them from getting security clearance. Let's ignore all that and go right to this:
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| Dandandat | Nov 2 2008, 10:50 PM Post #3 |
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Time to put something here
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I don’t know about fear; But in my opinion Obama will not do more good for the majority of Americans as compared to McCain. I have however noticed that their seems to be this irrational discounting of people’s ‘right’ to an opinion by labeling differing opinions to one’s own as being based in fear or being racially oriented. I understand your opinion that you think Obama will "do more good for the majority of Americans (a new deal and fairer deal for them) than harm" a lot of people share that opinion, and I respect it even if I don’t agree. What I don’t understand Somerled is your irrational desire to bar people from having a different opinion then your own through the labeling of fear and racisms. In fact in light of our recent discussion pertaining to your “I would probably resort to murdering some of my (less necessary, or weaker) crew mates in order to survive” (Link) brand of socialism; this irrational desire to bar people from having a differing opinion to your own, is just one more step down that road that leads your brand of socialism to soviet communism, where the starvation (ie murder) of an entire people seen as less necessary and weaker (the Ukraine) was deemed necessary in order to help the communist society survive. Edited by Dandandat, Nov 2 2008, 10:57 PM.
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| somerled | Nov 2 2008, 10:56 PM Post #4 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Dan , please don't try to tangent this thread to yet another discussion of a hyperthetical (which has nothing what so ever to with topic of this discussion or for that matter with socialism). Please stay on topic. If you wish to reopen discussion about the hyperthetical you've developed an obsession on, bump it and reopen the appropriate thread. Edited by somerled, Nov 2 2008, 11:00 PM.
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| Dandandat | Nov 2 2008, 11:08 PM Post #5 |
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Time to put something here
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Forgive me, I guess I was not exactly clear, because my post was on topic. But I will restate my post in order to help you understand. somerled; why is it that you are irrationally using labels such as fear and racist in order to bar others from having a differing opinion to your own? I don’t quite understand this practice since all people should have a right to an opinion. This all reminds me of a conversation we had not too long ago where I warned you that your “I would probably resort to murdering some of my (less necessary, or weaker) crew mates in order to survive” (Link) brand of socialism is what is easily perverted into what we have seen from the soviet communists. A group ruthless enough to have deemed an entire group of people (Ukrainians) less necessary and weaker and decided to murder them through starvation in order to help the rest of the communities society survive. Your attempt to bar others from having an opinion in this threads topic of labeling opinions different then your own as being born from fear and racism; seems to be one step further in that perversion that turns socialism into what we saw from the soviet communists. |
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| fireh8er | Nov 2 2008, 11:53 PM Post #6 |
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I'm Captain Kirk!
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I truly believe there are a lot of Americans who fear Obama winning the Election. Of course, there are racial overtones. Not everyone who opposes Obama is a racist. Some think he far too liberal for they taste. Others think he's too young and inexperienced. Still others don't like some of the people he has been associated with. But there others who will not vote for him because he's a Black man. That's the facts. I think it's far too early to say how Obama's presidency will affect the American people. Regardless who wins the election, I believe there are going to be a whole lot of people upset. Edited by fireh8er, Nov 3 2008, 12:23 AM.
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| somerled | Nov 3 2008, 12:47 AM Post #7 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Stop trying to personalise this. I will not be playing your game - stay on topic. |
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| Swidden | Nov 3 2008, 12:48 AM Post #8 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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Fireh8er is right. There are a number of reasons why some will not support Sen. Obama. No can say that there no person's voting against him because he is black. There are 300 million people in the US. There are areas that, despite the progress of the past several decades, are heavily racist. Some people believe that if he does win on Tuesday he will almost immediately become a target of would be assasins (I personally know one man who is avowedly liberal is terrified of this prospect). For most of us that will be voting for someone other than Sen. Obama, we just do not believe his policies are what this country needs. As far as the details of that go, I will reserve comment for other threads more directly related to that idea. |
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| fireh8er | Nov 3 2008, 01:03 AM Post #9 |
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I'm Captain Kirk!
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Moderator Comment
Somerled and Dandandat, I need both of you to dail it back a notch. We need to stay on topic. I would love to hear other poster thoughts on this matter. But we must do in a civil manner. End of Moderator Comment Edited by fireh8er, Nov 3 2008, 01:13 AM.
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| RTW | Nov 3 2008, 01:54 AM Post #10 |
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Vice Admiral
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Which group is larger: Those who won't vote for Obama because he's black... or those who are only voting for Obama because he's black? Which group is more racist? Define "upset"? There's nothing to be "upset" about until Obama actually follows through on some of the promises that we're worried about. Put me in the "Oh shucks. This could get interesting." category. Unfortunately, the word "racism", an important word that has been greatly diminished, may become virtually meaningless if we continue down this path. Again, which group is larger: Those who'll be upset if Obama wins ... or those who'll be upset if Obama loses? |
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| Wichita | Nov 3 2008, 07:06 AM Post #11 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Where do you get the idea that Obama is "inclusive"? I keep hearing that he is going to do things in some sort of "new" way, but then I seen him behaving as a very typical "Chicago" politician. I have no doubt that some people will vote against Obama because of his race. I have the same level of assurance that there is a significant number of people who won't vote for Palin because she is a woman. After all, even Obama couldn't find a single woman in the entire Democratic party who he considered to be a better candidate than Joe Biden. Obviously, that decision was not based on Biden's qualifications, his ability to speak in public or his temperament. He must have been concerned about the number of votes she might have cost him. I confess, everytime Obama says something about "they say I have a funny name ....", I think he is pathetic (see "non-Presidential"). I will vote tomorrow for a man with a funny name ... who doesn't look like other candidates. He is even a confirmed Democrat. The difference between him and Obama? In his time in public office, he has gone on record with his votes and actually accomplished something. Before he took public office, he brought a near-bankrupt company back from the brink as its CEO. Unfortunately, he isn't old enough to run for President yet. I would happily vote for him if he was running. |
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| somerled | Nov 3 2008, 07:13 AM Post #12 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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^^^ His policies from what I have heard and read are much more inclusive than McCains. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Nov 3 2008, 07:22 AM Post #13 |
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UberAdmiral
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Inclusive? No. Oppressive? Yes. The thing that federal government can do to help far more Americans is to get off their backs. As for being fairer, life isn't fair. You can not please everyone. |
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| somerled | Nov 3 2008, 09:41 AM Post #14 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Having the Republicans in charge for 8 years has worked out very well .... been fine if you are rich, too bad for everyone else .... like a famous ex Australian Liberal PM once said .... "life isn't meant to be easy" , this came from a man who was born into wealth and privalege and never went without for his entire life. I guess a lot of americans will be unhappy on Wednesday. Obama seems to be someone who will improve the lot of a very large number of americans , and who will lift the world's view of the USA out of the pit it has dug it self into over the last 8 years. Can't say the same for McCain. Edited by somerled, Nov 3 2008, 09:46 AM.
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Nov 3 2008, 10:36 AM Post #15 |
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UberAdmiral
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Seems. Seems. You keep using that word. What pit have we dug ourselves into? And how will Obama fix it? As I've said before, the world's "view" of us is irrelevant. They don't have to love us, and no matter who the leader is they'll trash us. Then they'll be the first to whine to us when the first crisis arrives. |
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