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What's this supposed to mean?
Topic Started: Oct 29 2008, 11:16 PM (316 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Obama is quoted as saying this...
Quote:
 
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/il/articles/obama_outlines_plan_for_national_service.html


So, Obama wants a civilian national security force... a policing agency if you will... that's as well funded, as powerful and as strong as the US Military.

Does anyone else see that as truly Orwellian?
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whitestar
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Captain
Isn't that the role of existing security agencies such as the FBI, CIA and the NSA?
The term "as powerful" would be an understatement in a discription of those agencies in terms of legal authority. Correct me if I'm wrong, the military has little if any authority outside of a national emergency or martial law, the only other way of using the term "as powerful" is in the context of arms, and that is a worry. That is inviting an American version of the "SS" of Nazi Germany
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
So he wants to strengthen the National Guard and the Coast Guard ?

So what ?

Oh wait that'll threaten the aircraft manufacturing business maybe , and weaken the Pentagon maybe ? mmm ..... big deal.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
Oct 30 2008, 01:58 AM
So he wants to strengthen the National Guard and the Coast Guard ?

So what ?

Oh wait that'll threaten the aircraft manufacturing business maybe , and weaken the Pentagon maybe ? mmm ..... big deal.
You know, you'd really help your case if you learned something about our military forces before making posts like this...
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
whitestar
Oct 30 2008, 01:51 AM
Isn't that the role of existing security agencies such as the FBI, CIA and the NSA?
The term "as powerful" would be an understatement in a discription of those agencies in terms of legal authority. Correct me if I'm wrong, the military has little if any authority outside of a national emergency or martial law, the only other way of using the term "as powerful" is in the context of arms, and that is a worry. That is inviting an American version of the "SS" of Nazi Germany
Yes, that's my concern too.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
whitestar
Oct 30 2008, 01:51 AM
Isn't that the role of existing security agencies such as the FBI, CIA and the NSA?
The term "as powerful" would be an understatement in a discription of those agencies in terms of legal authority. Correct me if I'm wrong, the military has little if any authority outside of a national emergency or martial law, the only other way of using the term "as powerful" is in the context of arms, and that is a worry. That is inviting an American version of the "SS" of Nazi Germany
I'm thinking more along the lines of the NKVD.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=69601

People have been asking about this since July.
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Dwayne
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Totalitarian regimes are built upon personality cults...
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whitestar
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Captain
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 30 2008, 08:45 AM
whitestar
Oct 30 2008, 01:51 AM
Isn't that the role of existing security agencies such as the FBI, CIA and the NSA?
The term "as powerful" would be an understatement in a discription of those agencies in terms of legal authority. Correct me if I'm wrong, the military has little if any authority outside of a national emergency or martial law, the only other way of using the term "as powerful" is in the context of arms, and that is a worry. That is inviting an American version of the "SS" of Nazi Germany
I'm thinking more along the lines of the NKVD.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=69601

People have been asking about this since July.
The NKVD, thats Russian right? I don't think they have organised military units armed to the teeth able to take on the armed forces such as the SS of Nazi Germany which were easily a match of the German regular army on a unit to unit basis. Your existing security agencies could already terrorise the population as did the KGB without arming them as a military. The only difference are your laws and I guess the military itself if ordered to intervene
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD

Even though it's not like the SS, I think the NKVD is probably a pretty good analogy tho.
Edited by Dwayne, Oct 30 2008, 09:36 AM.
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whitestar
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Captain
Dwayne
Oct 30 2008, 09:36 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD

Even though it's not like the SS, I think the NKVD is probably a pretty good analogy tho.
Explain how?
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Read up on the NKVD... one of the things they were tasked with enforcing was ideological purity.
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whitestar
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Captain
I did, I read your link actually... not a mention of divisions of armed troops trained as elite soldiers, or tank divisions, or an arm in the airforce but there was a mention of the Gestapo... much closer comparison to an NSA or FBI in the wrong hands than a security agency as powerful as the military that this thread started on
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
whitestar
Oct 30 2008, 10:40 AM
I did, I read your link actually... not a mention of divisions of armed troops trained as elite soldiers, or tank divisions, or an arm in the airforce but there was a mention of the Gestapo... much closer comparison to an NSA or FBI in the wrong hands than a security agency as powerful as the military that this thread started on
That wasn't the gist of the original article, or the follow-up I posted.

From my article:

Quote:
 
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Now, since I've never heard anyone inside or out of government use the phrase "civilian national security force" before, I was more than a little curious about what he has in mind.


National security force isn't a military force but rather a police force. This is why the NKVD popped into my head.
Edited by Admiralbill_gomec, Oct 30 2008, 11:07 AM.
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whitestar
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Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 30 2008, 11:05 AM
National security force isn't a military force but rather a police force. This is why the NKVD popped into my head.
so was the Nazi SS a police force but armed as though a military force as would be any security force "that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded"
Edited by whitestar, Oct 30 2008, 11:42 AM.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
The history of the SS could be summed up as a paramilitary force. And it's really difficult at this point to conclude how Obama's civilian national security force will operate. All I know is that this is not needed and would serve no function that's not already being accomplished by already existing agencies.
Edited by Dwayne, Oct 30 2008, 01:58 PM.
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