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| To the people here who live under socialism...; and think it is good or great.... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 27 2008, 11:57 PM (1,469 Views) | |
| ImpulseEngine | Oct 28 2008, 11:58 AM Post #31 |
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Admiral
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Had to look it up, huh? ![]() Now this... ...tells me you either don't fully understand the complete meaning of that definition that you just provided or you don't understand what Obama is intending to do. Condescension is no substitute for a good argument and frankly just makes you look bad. |
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| Dandandat | Oct 28 2008, 12:02 PM Post #32 |
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Time to put something here
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STC, I don't understand this part of your challenge "then show that he is unique in fitting that definition". Why would the definition need to fit Obama uniquely? "If" Obama is a Socialist; that would not preclude the fact that other people are also socialist. Therefore the definition would not be unique to Obama but would describe Obama and all the other Socialists. Or did you mean that phrase in a different way. Thanks. |
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| Dandandat | Oct 28 2008, 12:04 PM Post #33 |
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Time to put something here
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Could it also be that he doesnt agree with you on what it is Obama intends to do? |
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| ImpulseEngine | Oct 28 2008, 12:08 PM Post #34 |
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Admiral
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Obama either is or isn't a Socialist. And his intended policies either do or don't define him as one. This is a matter of facts, not merely a disagreement. |
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| STC | Oct 28 2008, 12:08 PM Post #35 |
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Commodore
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Reply to Dan, Because Dwayne's implicit line of argument is that Obama is a Socialist and that others i.e. Republicans, are not. If that isn't the line of argument, then why make an issue about Obama being a Socialist? Why even mention it, unless one thought it was a trait unique to him? My own view is that Obama does have some policies that would fit Socialism. So does McCain. It could be perhaps be argued that Obama is more Socialist than McCain, but this is not the same as saying that Obama is Socialist and therefore implying that his views are highly deviant from the norms. Edited by STC, Oct 28 2008, 12:09 PM.
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| ImpulseEngine | Oct 28 2008, 12:14 PM Post #36 |
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Admiral
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Someone gets it...
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| whitestar | Oct 28 2008, 12:17 PM Post #37 |
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Captain
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very few items attract a sales tax since a 11% GST was introduced in the late ninties. Estate tax? well, if you mean annuall land rates, they are are a local government tax to pay for services such as garbage collection to road maintenance, etc etc and it's a matter of land value that sets the rate owed, on average in the cities you would expect to pay from one thousand upto many thousands of dollars per year Income tax on $100,000.... 33%, including 2% levy, thats before tax deductions, the better your accountant the less tax you pay |
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| STC | Oct 28 2008, 12:24 PM Post #38 |
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Commodore
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Off-topic post Whitestar, I know you were having trouble with the PM system. I've just sent you a test one, have you received it? ![]() End off-topic post |
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| Dandandat | Oct 28 2008, 12:26 PM Post #39 |
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Time to put something here
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Ones perceived opinions as to Obama's intended policies are not a matter of fact, but are matters of opinion . Also as we all know a politicians intended polices as laid out during an election are rarely the same shape, size, and scope of what acutely transpires after the election is complete. Which makes it prudent for the elector it to know something of their elected officials besides champion promises. This information is also subjective. So you black and white (is or is not) approach to this issue is very incorrect. Further more; people in general can rarely be defined by a ridged set of ideals set forth in a dictionary definition; in most cases their is no such thing as a person who "is or isn't a Socialist". In most cases people hold ideals that run up and down the spectrum; and it is the strength of those ideals and where those ideals are most concentrated that place someone in a category such as Socialist. In other words, not all Socialists are alike and not all Socialists agree with every tenant of the Socialistic system or agree 100% with each other. Same would go for any other group. The idea that a person like Obama is or is not a socialist is a sloppy way to construe a thought; the thought would more effectively be posed "Does Obama hold Socialistic ideals, what are they, how will they effect his presidency, and can I live with those effects" |
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| Dandandat | Oct 28 2008, 12:33 PM Post #40 |
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Time to put something here
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So when you say unique; you aren't talking about Obama vs 'the rest of the world' but Obama vs McCain (or other prominent Republicans who would profess they are not Socialists). At some point "More Socialist" would become highly deviant from the norms, would it not? So could not a candidate be "More Socialist" than his opponent to the point that it would make the electorate uncomfortable (assuming the electorate looks down upon socialism)? Would then not the second candidate bring to light the fact of the first candidates Socialistic tendencies, even if the second candidate does himself hold a less amount of socialistic tendencies, but on a level that is not highly deviant from the electorate? It would seem to me to be a mistake for the second candidate in such a situation not to bring up this fact, even if he does hold some socialistic tendencies himself but not on the same level as the first candidate. That’s like me not shunning you for being a murder just because I stole a pack of gum; where both criminals, but your more of a criminal then I am and their would be no issue in me saying so. Edited by Dandandat, Oct 28 2008, 12:54 PM.
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| whitestar | Oct 28 2008, 12:34 PM Post #41 |
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Captain
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Dwayne, I've given you two examples in my life of HIGHLY expensive medical interventions, each would add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, together climbing near the million dollar mark, way out of my reach but in both instances can you stand by the argument "Oh, and if I need hundreds of thousand of dollars to keep me (or anyone else for that matter) alive, I say, what's the point?" Whats the point of giving a 6mth old baby a chance to survive? are you serious? Whats the point of giving a 14yr old boy a chance for life into adulthood? are you serious? |
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| Dwayne | Oct 28 2008, 12:38 PM Post #42 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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^^^ Yes, what is the point? |
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| STC | Oct 28 2008, 12:41 PM Post #43 |
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Commodore
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That could be one interpretation Dan but, really, to get to the point, I'm just challenging Dwayne's implication that Obama is a Socialist/deviant from political norms/extreme etc. I don't want or intend to get hung up on individual words and semantics - I'd like Dwayne (if he wants to of course ) to respond to my points rather than sliding into another tangent with you.
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| Dandandat | Oct 28 2008, 12:44 PM Post #44 |
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Time to put something here
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Whitestar, the Estate tax Frimp is referring to I believe is the tax you pay on inheritance when a family member dies and pass their assets off to you. |
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| whitestar | Oct 28 2008, 12:45 PM Post #45 |
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Captain
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Ok, I had built a certain respect for you Dwayne, all gone now. |
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Someone gets it...

2:12 PM Jul 11