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Locked Topic
Joe the Plumber?; Not a plumber. And not even called Joe
Topic Started: Oct 17 2008, 06:00 AM (2,533 Views)
ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Wichita
Oct 22 2008, 05:48 AM
ImpulseEngine
Oct 21 2008, 08:32 AM
Ok, I'll take you at your word. However, my point wasn't just about whether Obama gets the blame, but also about why the scrutiny started. I don't believe it started simply because of the conversation between Obama and Joe. It started because that conversation was made into a bigger deal in the 3rd debate. That then caused the media to pick up on it. This is in reply to something you said earlier along the lines of whether everyone who speaks to Obama is going to get scrutinized.



And I will take you at your word that you don't blame McCain for the treatment that he received either.

However, I will repeat that BEFORE the debate, I was already reading articles detailing various aspects of Joe the Plumber's personal life.
Hmm. I was unaware that it had become any kind of a big deal before the debate. It did get posted on Youtube. The media probably heard about it from there then I would guess, but I don't know.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 08:54 AM
Minuet
Oct 22 2008, 08:18 AM
Wichita - whenever I have tried to "discuss" the issues with anyone I have found examples wanting. This is one incident. It does not show any trend in my opinion.

Maybe the "press" doesn't protect McCain because the secret service does just fine without their help keeping little old ladies away from him. And he gets plenty of protection from right wing radio too.
Oh yes, that scary right wing radio... the only part of the media not controlled by the left (even though they control the print media and the television media and a good portion of the electronic media).

But wait, here comes the Fairness Doctrine.
Sorry AB, but there is no comparison. Whether there is left-wing bias in the media is debatable and indeed we do debate that very point. It's far from clear so, if it's there at all, there is enough balance to at least muddle the picture. And FoxNews is equally muddled just in the other direction, but it too is part of what's debatable. Right-wing talk radio, however, leaves no doubt whatsoever. Not only does it take clear positions on the right-wing side of the issues, but it actively denounces Democrats, Liberals, and "The Left" with a clear agenda of influencing politics in this country. There are members of the media who do that as well from the Left side - Keith Olbermann, for example. However, the majority of people in the media aren't that obvious if they're biased at all.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
ImpulseEngine
Oct 22 2008, 10:15 AM
Wichita
Oct 22 2008, 05:48 AM
ImpulseEngine
Oct 21 2008, 08:32 AM
Ok, I'll take you at your word. However, my point wasn't just about whether Obama gets the blame, but also about why the scrutiny started. I don't believe it started simply because of the conversation between Obama and Joe. It started because that conversation was made into a bigger deal in the 3rd debate. That then caused the media to pick up on it. This is in reply to something you said earlier along the lines of whether everyone who speaks to Obama is going to get scrutinized.



And I will take you at your word that you don't blame McCain for the treatment that he received either.

However, I will repeat that BEFORE the debate, I was already reading articles detailing various aspects of Joe the Plumber's personal life.
Hmm. I was unaware that it had become any kind of a big deal before the debate. It did get posted on Youtube. The media probably heard about it from there then I would guess, but I don't know.
It was a huge deal before the debate... I posted this before the debate: http://s2.zetaboards.com/SisterTrek/single/?p=8016890&t=5017488
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
ImpulseEngine
Oct 22 2008, 10:25 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 08:54 AM
Minuet
Oct 22 2008, 08:18 AM
Wichita - whenever I have tried to "discuss" the issues with anyone I have found examples wanting. This is one incident. It does not show any trend in my opinion.

Maybe the "press" doesn't protect McCain because the secret service does just fine without their help keeping little old ladies away from him. And he gets plenty of protection from right wing radio too.
Oh yes, that scary right wing radio... the only part of the media not controlled by the left (even though they control the print media and the television media and a good portion of the electronic media).

But wait, here comes the Fairness Doctrine.
Sorry AB, but there is no comparison. Whether there is left-wing bias in the media is debatable and indeed we do debate that very point. It's far from clear so, if it's there at all, there is enough balance to at least muddle the picture. And FoxNews is equally muddled just in the other direction, but it too is part of what's debatable. Right-wing talk radio, however, leaves no doubt whatsoever. Not only does it take clear positions on the right-wing side of the issues, but it actively denounces Democrats, Liberals, and "The Left" with a clear agenda of influencing politics in this country. There are members of the media who do that as well from the Left side - Keith Olbermann, for example. However, the majority of people in the media aren't that obvious if they're biased at all.
Of course there's a comparison, IE. I'm curious, though. Are you FOR the Fairness Doctrine or AGAINST it?

Forget a moonbat like Olbermann, look at ABC/CBS/NBC instead. Do you really believe their broadcasts are remotely balanced? It isn't debatable, except to those who refuse to see it objectively. I don't argue that most (certainly not all) talk radio is dominated by the right. So, are you dissatisfied that the left doesn't control everything? :headscratch:
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 10:47 AM
ImpulseEngine
Oct 22 2008, 10:25 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 08:54 AM
Minuet
Oct 22 2008, 08:18 AM
Wichita - whenever I have tried to "discuss" the issues with anyone I have found examples wanting. This is one incident. It does not show any trend in my opinion.

Maybe the "press" doesn't protect McCain because the secret service does just fine without their help keeping little old ladies away from him. And he gets plenty of protection from right wing radio too.
Oh yes, that scary right wing radio... the only part of the media not controlled by the left (even though they control the print media and the television media and a good portion of the electronic media).

But wait, here comes the Fairness Doctrine.
Sorry AB, but there is no comparison. Whether there is left-wing bias in the media is debatable and indeed we do debate that very point. It's far from clear so, if it's there at all, there is enough balance to at least muddle the picture. And FoxNews is equally muddled just in the other direction, but it too is part of what's debatable. Right-wing talk radio, however, leaves no doubt whatsoever. Not only does it take clear positions on the right-wing side of the issues, but it actively denounces Democrats, Liberals, and "The Left" with a clear agenda of influencing politics in this country. There are members of the media who do that as well from the Left side - Keith Olbermann, for example. However, the majority of people in the media aren't that obvious if they're biased at all.
Of course there's a comparison, IE. I'm curious, though. Are you FOR the Fairness Doctrine or AGAINST it?

Forget a moonbat like Olbermann, look at ABC/CBS/NBC instead. Do you really believe their broadcasts are remotely balanced? It isn't debatable, except to those who refuse to see it objectively. I don't argue that most (certainly not all) talk radio is dominated by the right. So, are you dissatisfied that the left doesn't control everything? :headscratch:
I know very little about the Fairness Doctrine in all honesty so I really can't form an opinion. Based on the little I know, the main pro would be more balance in reporting, but the main con is limiting free speech which I don't like. So I would have to learn a lot more about it before I would feel comfortable that I was informed enough to give a decent opinion.

Yes, I do believe ABC, CBS, and NBC overall are reasonably balanced - no differently than FoxNews.

Am I dissatisfied that the left doesn't control everything? No, and I'm interpreting your real question to mean why did I comment on this in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong). I commented on it because it always amazes me when I hear people from the right justifying the complete bias of right-wing talk radio with the argument that the left does the equivalent or worse with the rest of the media. I just find that factually incorrect so I don't let it go when I hear it. As I said, there's no comparison.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Dwayne
Oct 22 2008, 10:37 AM
It was a huge deal before the debate... I posted this before the debate: http://s2.zetaboards.com/SisterTrek/single/?p=8016890&t=5017488
Ok. I've been pretty busy lately and haven't even watched the news necessarily every night for awhile now. And I haven't read all of your posts either. :shrug:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
^^^ Well, I run a business and my CPA is telling me to start saving up money in order to pay higher taxes. To sit there and watch that video, and then have people start attacking this guy for merely asking a question, just goes way beyond the pale.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
ImpulseEngine
Oct 22 2008, 11:46 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 10:47 AM
ImpulseEngine
Oct 22 2008, 10:25 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Oct 22 2008, 08:54 AM
Minuet
Oct 22 2008, 08:18 AM
Wichita - whenever I have tried to "discuss" the issues with anyone I have found examples wanting. This is one incident. It does not show any trend in my opinion.

Maybe the "press" doesn't protect McCain because the secret service does just fine without their help keeping little old ladies away from him. And he gets plenty of protection from right wing radio too.
Oh yes, that scary right wing radio... the only part of the media not controlled by the left (even though they control the print media and the television media and a good portion of the electronic media).

But wait, here comes the Fairness Doctrine.
Sorry AB, but there is no comparison. Whether there is left-wing bias in the media is debatable and indeed we do debate that very point. It's far from clear so, if it's there at all, there is enough balance to at least muddle the picture. And FoxNews is equally muddled just in the other direction, but it too is part of what's debatable. Right-wing talk radio, however, leaves no doubt whatsoever. Not only does it take clear positions on the right-wing side of the issues, but it actively denounces Democrats, Liberals, and "The Left" with a clear agenda of influencing politics in this country. There are members of the media who do that as well from the Left side - Keith Olbermann, for example. However, the majority of people in the media aren't that obvious if they're biased at all.
Of course there's a comparison, IE. I'm curious, though. Are you FOR the Fairness Doctrine or AGAINST it?

Forget a moonbat like Olbermann, look at ABC/CBS/NBC instead. Do you really believe their broadcasts are remotely balanced? It isn't debatable, except to those who refuse to see it objectively. I don't argue that most (certainly not all) talk radio is dominated by the right. So, are you dissatisfied that the left doesn't control everything? :headscratch:
I know very little about the Fairness Doctrine in all honesty so I really can't form an opinion. Based on the little I know, the main pro would be more balance in reporting, but the main con is limiting free speech which I don't like. So I would have to learn a lot more about it before I would feel comfortable that I was informed enough to give a decent opinion.

Yes, I do believe ABC, CBS, and NBC overall are reasonably balanced - no differently than FoxNews.

Am I dissatisfied that the left doesn't control everything? No, and I'm interpreting your real question to mean why did I comment on this in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong). I commented on it because it always amazes me when I hear people from the right justifying the complete bias of right-wing talk radio with the argument that the left does the equivalent or worse with the rest of the media. I just find that factually incorrect so I don't let it go when I hear it. As I said, there's no comparison.
http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-mexico-democrat-will-push-to.html

Here it comes, the Fairness Doctrine.

(shudder)
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
AB,

From your article:
Quote:
 
In a stunning admission most Democrats have been unwilling to make in public, a New Mexico senator has revealed his desire to eliminate commercial talk radio and its opposition voices as soon as it is politically feasible.
I happen to be home now so I just watched that video clip and, if that's what the article is talking about, I don't hear what I just quoted. I hear Bingaman saying he wants balance in what's presented, not the elimination of commercial talk radio like the article states. (And who the heck is Radio Equalizer anyway?)

I did read the part about how struggling radio stations would not be able to survive under the Fairness Doctrine. That may or may not be accurate, but even if it is, that's not the same as having their demise be the actual goal of the Fairness Doctrine. If it is the goal, I certainly would not support it.
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Wichita
Member Avatar
The Adminstrator wRench
Impulse Engine,

I am not going to post some of the more recent surveys indicating that the media is overwhelmingly supportive of Obama compared to McCain. I am not going to post some of the piece I have read from reporters who are honest enough to say that they and most of their collegues are far more left than they admit.

In my opinion, numbers of incidents aren't the issue - trust is.

I personally don't listen to talk radio from the right. In my circle of friends I know that there are a few, but none that I would call "moderate" from Republicans do. (Oddly, more of my vocal liberal friends do, however. :P )

My point is that among people that I know, myself included, who don't listen to talk radio and who tend toward to conservative, the level of trust in the national media is, if not zero, is less than zero.

In a competitive environment like the media, if you write off the viewpoint of a major market segment, then you are risking the success of your business. Therefore, I am not surprised in the slightest to see that newspapers and news media organizations are slashing budgets and staff to try and save what's left.

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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
^^^ Newt Gingrich makes the same point you are, I think, but just a bit more forcefully ...


Here's the text...
Quote:
 
The elite media's attack on Governor Palin again and again has been factually wrong, intellectually dishonest, totally biased, worthy of the Polish State news media attacking Lech Walesa back in the 1980's. I mean this is the type of deliberate, vicious, dishonest, total distortion of who Governor Palin is including by the way, the Saturday Night Live Skit some of which by the way, I think were slander and were worthy of a lawsuit.

And, I think the American people should realize that the elite media on the Left is so desperate to elect Barack Obama that the view they are giving you of Governor Palin is fundamentally a falsehood. And, the one you saw from CNN is so outrageous that they owe her an absolute apology. But frankly, Katie Couric misquoted Henry Kissinger, earlier than that, ABC News misquoted the Bush Doctrine. Again and again you've seen elite reporters do things that were false in order to try to make Governor Palin look bad...

If you would look at the coverage Michelle Obama has gotten and the coverage that Cindy McCain has gotten you have to believe that the fix is in. When you look at the magazine covers, the pictures that were taken, again and again, over and over for the last year we have been brainwashed, propagandized, insultingly lectured by the news media. If you look what happened to Joe the Plumber... Now, I haven't seen anyone from the elite media do a live broadcast from the non-existent Katie's Restaurant to point out that Joe Biden is just out of touch with reality. He's either dishonest or has a total memory lapse about his hometown. Yet, nobody notices it. Again and again there were 14 factual mistakes by Biden in the vice-presidential debate. Nobody said that disqualified him. This has been a totally one-sided campaign where the news media has been the best ally that Barack Obama has gotten. And we ought to be honest about it. There's no pretense, not a shred of neutrality on the part of the major networks or The New York Times...

I've been thinking about having one of my researchers look at every single elite media interview of Governor Palin to see if any of them asked her how she gave $1300 a person back to Alaskans as a tax break, how she negotiated and got so much money out of Big Oil, how she worked out the deal for the natural gas pipeline, or anything of substance about how she shaped an $11 billion budget involving 29,000 employees of the state government.

I don't believe by the best of my knowledge that there has been a single question by an elite television journalist about her actual career in Alaska.

And, I think it is the most insulting. I can't say this too strongly. This is like watching Pravda.

This is a one-sided vicious unending dishonest campaign.


Way to go Newt!
Edited by Dwayne, Oct 23 2008, 07:26 AM.
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Minuet
Member Avatar
Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
I have heard a few things about the "Fairness Doctrine" on this site

Let me start by saying that I am against the idea of restricting free speech in any way.

But I don't quite understand why some people here say that this doctrine would drown out right wing voices. I get that the radio stations would have to air more left wing views to balance the right wing talk shows.

But if the rest of the media is TRUELY so left wing then wouldn't the doctrine aid right wingers in getting thier views aired on TV and in the print press.

Unless of course those medias are more balanced then they care to admit......
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Minuet
Oct 23 2008, 08:04 AM
IBut I don't quite understand why some people here say that this doctrine would drown out right wing voices. I get that the radio stations would have to air more left wing views to balance the right wing talk shows.

But if the rest of the media is TRUELY so left wing then wouldn't the doctrine aid right wingers in getting thier views aired on TV and in the print press.


Sorry, messed up the quote and deleted my comment:

No, it would not work this way because broadcast media is supposed to be "self policing", and also you have to consider selective enforcement by a government completely controlled by one party with an interest in forcing "right wing broadcast media" to air opposing views.

By the way, print media is not affected by the so-called "Fairness Doctrine" nor is redheaded stepchild electronic media.

Min, here's the problem. The left has had the EXACT SAME OPPORTUNITY to start their own radio network. The did it, too, with Air America. Problem is, it has been a miserable failure and has not been able to compete in the FREE MARKET. If the public wanted more left wing media then why didn't this company boom? Why has conservative radio media continued to grow?
Edited by Admiralbill_gomec, Oct 24 2008, 03:31 PM.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
FYI, a formal investigation has been launched in Ohio to determine how Joe the Plumber's personal information was accessed. There are questions both at the county and state level.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
I'm glad to hear that an investigation is forthcoming, but with Brunner in Ohio, I just don't have that much faith it would be an honest investigation.
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