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| [x]Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Wed May 31, 2017 5:09 pm (1,714 Views) | |
| Asami | Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:17 pm Post #31 |
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oooooh what about the apex being an ability that makes you fight your opponent in an illusion-scape for 3 posts and all damage received from either side is converted to mental damage at the end? |
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Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:28 pm Post #32 |
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Hmm.. possible option C or at least once we have a full write up for it. Let us see if option A or B is approved of first. |
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| Seele | Sat Oct 7, 2017 9:28 pm Post #33 |
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Don't hold this against me red, but do you mind posting the most updated version, with all the abilities in a single post and the correct format? I don't want to hunt through this topic to find what's being proposed. I promise that as soon as you do I'll take a stab at it. |
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Sat Oct 7, 2017 10:03 pm Post #34 |
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Okay we were trying to figure out the final ability as that was the major problem at the moment. Still if you want the full cPRC again then here you go. Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) Level 1 Kitsune Tails: A measurement of power both physically and magically for Kitsunes. You start with or grow three fox like tails. Each tail is prehensile and can wield light weapon like a dagger like if you had it in your hand. You grow an additional tail at second and third level and two tails on fourth and fifth level for a total of nine. Level 2: Fox Fire: A small ball of flame that is completely controllable by the Kitsune making them dificult to dodge if the enemy is visible to the Kitsune. When fox fire hits an enemy they take minor damge from the impact and they can be lit on fire for two rounds. Each round they take minor damage regardless of how many fox fire balls hit them. The Kitsune Trickster can create one ball of fox fire per two tail rounded up. Five balls at nine tails. Level 3: Kitsune Magic Conversion: All damaging spells are converted into illusions. However, you can no longer cast normal damaging spells. The spell retains any elemental type or other feature as it would not be a convincing illusion if the spell changed in any significant way. IE a successful illusionary fireball will be less effective against fire resistance just like the real spell. If the illusion is believed than the Kitsune has created an illusion so good that the enemy believes it strong enough that their body takes damage as if it hit with a real spell. However the illusionary spell does make base spells a bit more powerful by providing a minor damage boost to spells. This ability can not stack with any other PRC or cPRC ability. Kitsune Illusionary Weapon Style: For each tail you posses you can make one attack per battle that is overlayed with an illusionary double. The illusion will come at a different angle than the actual attack making the enemy to chose between which attack to block. You can use more than one charge for a single attack which increases the number of illusionary attacks by one per charge. Level 4: Illusionary Doubles: You can create on illusionary copy of your self per 2 tails rounded up. Maximum 5 doubles. Once per battle you can swap positions with any of these illusionary doubles. True Deception: Your illusions are exceedingly tricky to detect. People with lower skill levels in, arcana and concentration skills than the Kitsune will have an moderately difficult time detecting your illusion, even with the aide of detect magic/illusion. In addition once per day double the potency of illusions on one target to major difficulty for 3 posts Level 5: OOC Note: This is the ability most under debate. These are the two options I am submitting at this time: Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If the opponent(s) take the moderate damage mentioned then this ability ends for that(those) opponent(s) and do not read the next paragraph. If they do not take the damage then nothing happens until the second post. In the second post the opponent(s) can no longer discern illusion from reality. Existing illusions or illusions you cast during this second post become real to the opponent for the duration of the second post. All illusions in this second post must give a chance to avoid further damage, just like any other illusion or ability. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. OOC NOTE: Alright along with the last attempt above I also thought of an alternate capstone ability bellow that may work if the above is still not acceptable: Illusionary Fortress: This ability is used as the last defense of any Kitsune and is often used to hide or run away from an opponent. When activated anyone within 50 foot radius of the Kitsune are effected, but to different levels. Those 10 feet of the Kitsune has extreme difficulty resisting this illusory ability. Those with in 11-30 feet have major difficulty resisting. Those within 31-50 feet have moderate resisting difficulty. Those who fail find them selves facing an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind. The illusion is always made with defense in mind something like a large maze or trap filled fortress or tower. Those under the illusion can take damage while in the illusion, like if they fall for a trap or such. The illusion can not be too big or complicated and must be something a character could finish within three posts. However those under the effect of the illusion must make it through or past this defense before they are released from the illusion. The people who fail the illusion must be placed in safe area like the start of the maze. While this illusion is active the Kitsune or anyone else can not attack those under the effect of the illusion without breaking it and giving the character a chance to avoid the new attack. Kitsunes can not use any additional abilities or magic while Illusionary Fortress is active. Edited by redfiver, Sat Oct 7, 2017 10:05 pm.
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| Seele | Sun Oct 8, 2017 12:22 am Post #35 |
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Alright. I'll be honest, I'm just going to base this review on what you just posted. Reading 2 pages of back-and-forth will just bias my opinions.
Once again, the abuse potential with Sharpen the Knives still worries me. I dunno, I'll think on it, but there's some other stuff for you to consider in the meantime. |
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Sun Oct 8, 2017 1:45 am Post #36 |
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Sigh it might have been better to read everything this is not a simple thing. I had to write an entire post on just how illusions should be handled. Illusions are complicated things.
Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) PRC Note: All abilities in this PRC can not be used with the "Sharpen the Knives" spell. Level 1 Kitsune Tails: A measurement of power both physically and magically for Kitsunes. You start with or grow three fox like tails. Each tail is two to four feet long, prehensile and can wield light weapon like a dagger like if you had it in your hand. You grow an additional tail at second and third level and two tails on fourth and fifth level for a total of nine. Level 2: Fox Fire: A small ball of flame that is completely controllable by the Kitsune making them dificult to dodge if the enemy is visible to the Kitsune. When fox fire hits an enemy they take minor damge from the impact and they can be lit on fire for two rounds. Each round they take minor damage regardless of how many fox fire balls hit them. The Kitsune Trickster can create one ball of fox fire per tail. Level 3: Kitsune Magic Conversion: All damaging spells are converted into illusions. However, you can no longer cast normal damaging spells. The spell retains any elemental type or other feature as it would not be a convincing illusion if the spell changed in any significant way. IE a successful illusionary fireball will be less effective against fire resistance just like the real spell. If the illusion is believed than the Kitsune has created an illusion so good that the enemy believes it strong enough that their body takes damage as if it hit with a real spell. However the illusionary spell does make base spells a bit more powerful by providing a minor damage boost to spells. This ability can not stack with any other PRC or cPRC ability. Kitsune Illusionary Weapon Style: For each tail you posses you can make one attack per battle that is overlayed with an illusionary double. The illusion will come at a different angle than the actual attack making the enemy to chose between which attack to block. You can use more than one charge for a single attack which increases the number of illusionary attacks by one per charge. Level 4: Illusionary Doubles: You can create on illusionary copy of your self per tail. The illusions can pretend to dodge, but if hit become obvious as illusions. Once per battle you can swap positions with any of these illusionary doubles. True Deception: Your illusions are exceedingly tricky to detect. People with lower skill levels in, arcana and concentration skills than the Kitsune will have an moderately difficult time detecting your illusion, even with the aide of detect magic/illusion. In addition once per day double the potency of illusions on one target to major difficulty for 3 posts Level 5: Illusionary Fortress: This ability is used as the last defense of any Kitsune and is often used to hide or run away from an opponent. When activated anyone within 50 foot radius of the Kitsune are effected. It is harder to resist the closer you are to the Kitsune. Those who fail find them selves facing an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind. The illusion is always made with defense in mind something like a large maze or trap filled fortress or tower. Those under the illusion can take damage while in the illusion, like if they fall for a trap or such. The illusion can not be too big or complicated and must be something a character could finish within three posts. However those under the effect of the illusion must make it through or past this defense before they are released from the illusion. The people who fail the illusion must be placed in safe area like the start of the maze. While this illusion is active the Kitsune or anyone else can not attack those under the effect of the illusion without breaking it and giving the character a chance to avoid the new attack. Kitsunes can not use any additional abilities or magic while Illusionary Fortress is active. |
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| Maranae | Sun Oct 8, 2017 5:06 pm Post #37 |
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Ok, a revisitation of this. Kitsune Tails: Four foot reach sounds a bit excessive, especially with NINE of them. I mean, you could also buy these from the grafting shop, albeit it would be expensive. Fox Fire; No. Up to 9 balls of flame that are difficult to dodge due to being controlled by the Kitsune, PLUS mild damage-over-time effect, and it can be used as often as every round? No. Seele's suggestion was one per level, but you have it as one per tail. That is ...fine, but there will need to be limitations for that, and to be able to spam it, it will need limitations and probably to not be a level 2 ability at that. My suggestion to use it at its current strength would be not more than once every three rounds, or, conversely, you can spam it as much as you want but a single target can only be affected by a certain number of fireballs per combat. KMC: Truthfully, Red, there is another way you could try going at this. You could leave spells being cast as they are, and justify a damage boost through illusory means. An example:
KIWS: Fine. Doubles: Now back to 9 illusions, with no usage limit or duration. Once again, Seele had mentioned one per level, which would be fine. It will still need a duration and use limit. True Deception. I understand you are getting frustrated, but please maintain proper decorum during the review process. Detect Magic is NOT a complete shutdown. Detect Illusions is, but unless they suspect illusions being used it is not a commonly used spell. I concur with Seele; if you want an ability that shuts down someones ability to detect your illusions, it must be an activated ability, and not latent. With a proper duration, you could make an ability that completely negates someones ability to detect an illusion for a finite period of time, a finite number of times per battle. Illusory Fortress: Fine. Side Note: All abilities need to be voided from Sharpen the Knives. Edited by Maranae, Sun Oct 8, 2017 5:10 pm.
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Sun Oct 8, 2017 6:07 pm Post #38 |
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Hey Aey I will fix the tails to 2-3 feet I guess. Fox Fire: Also sorry I guess I misunderstood Seele yesterday as I thought he was saying per tail not per level. As for using the per tail in description that is because of the flavor of Kitsunes. Their power is based in their tails and thus a determiner of usage/power in this cPRC. As for usage okay i will put a limit on usage I will go for once per battle. Also if not level two I am not sure where to put it... swap it with KIWS? That is the only thought I have. KMC: Sigh I really don't want to do that as part of the entire thing was the loss of normal casting methods. Plus what you wrote is basically the same level of complexity.... I don't really get why it is so hard to understand. Still I guess if this works better for whatever reason then I guess I can use that. I will put up two versions and see if I can fix the original illusions version to make it make sense or I will just go with yours. True Deception: Though I do disagree detect illusions is a complete shut down in most cases. This is a forum RP and I hate to say it, but meta-gaming is a very very very common thing. Yes it isn't cast all that often, but people also almost never use illusions. Once people start using them I would not be very surprised in seeing more use of the detect spell. It is just a thing that happens. Still I know you and I never agree on a lot of views and this is mine, so even if I keep arguing I doubt we will come to an agreement. I will just do what I can to make it acceptable. How about detect magic/illusion reduces the added difficulty to minor for this passive. Also keep in mind characters must still be in lower arcana and concentration for this passive to even work. On your Side note.... did you miss I put a disclaimer at the top of the PRC specifically stating that. Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) All abilities in this PRC can not be used with the "Sharpen the Knives" spell. Level 1 Kitsune Tails: A measurement of power both physically and magically for Kitsunes. You start with or grow three fox like tails. Each tail is two to three feet long, prehensile and can wield light weapon like a dagger like if you had it in your hand. You grow an additional tail at second and third level and two tails on fourth and fifth level for a total of nine. Level 2: Kitsune Illusionary Weapon Style: For each tail you posses you can make one attack per battle that is overlayed with an illusionary double. The illusion will come at a different angle than the actual attack making the enemy to chose between which attack to block. You can use more than one charge for a single attack which increases the number of illusionary attacks by one per charge. Level 3: Kitsune Magic Conversion: All damaging spells are converted into illusions. However, you can no longer cast normal damaging spells. Illusion spells will cause no damage if the target see through the illusion. If a person fails to resist they take equivalent psychic damage equal to the original spell damage plus moderate extra damage from the Kitsune's mental assault. This ability can not stack with any other PRC or cPRC ability. This ability cannot be used on spells that do not cause damage. OR Kitsune Magic Augmentation:When the Kitsune casts a spell, they may choose to augment that spell. Spells augmented by Kitsune Magic Conversion may appear much nastier than they really are. If a target fails to recognize that the spell is merely an ordinary spell, then the target, if struck, takes moderately more damage from this spell. If a target sees through the illusionary nature of the attack, the target will take normal damage if struck. Additional damage incurred by Kitsune Magic Conversion is dealt in psionic damage, seperately from the enhanced spells own elemental or non-elemental damage. This ability cannot be used on spells that do not cause damage. Fox Fire: A small ball of flame that is completely controllable by the Kitsune making them difficult to dodge if the enemy is visible to the Kitsune. When fox fire hits an enemy they take minor damage from the impact and they have a chance to be lit on fire for two rounds. Each round they take minor damage regardless of how many fox fire balls hit them. The Kitsune Trickster can create one ball of fox fire per tail. A Kitsune can do this once per battle. Level 4: Illusionary Doubles: Once per battle you can create on illusionary copy of your self per 3 tail, maximum 3. The illusions can pretend to dodge, but if hit become obvious as illusions. These illusions last for one post per three tails, maximum 3 posts. Once per battle you can swap positions with any of these illusionary doubles. True Deception: Your illusions are exceedingly tricky to detect. People with lower skill levels in, arcana and concentration skills than the Kitsune will have an moderately difficult time detecting your illusion. Detect magic or detect illusions can help, but it is still minorly harder than a normal illusion to resist. Level 5: Illusionary Fortress: This ability is used as the last defense of any Kitsune and is often used to hide or run away from an opponent. When activated anyone within 50 foot radius of the Kitsune are effected. It is harder to resist the closer you are to the Kitsune. Those who fail find them selves facing an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind. The illusion is always made with defense in mind something like a large maze or trap filled fortress or tower. Those under the illusion can take damage while in the illusion, like if they fall for a trap or such. The illusion can not be too big or complicated and must be something a character could finish within three posts. However those under the effect of the illusion must make it through or past this defense before they are released from the illusion. The people who fail the illusion must be placed in safe area like the start of the maze. While this illusion is active the Kitsune or anyone else can not attack those under the effect of the illusion without breaking it and giving the character a chance to avoid the new attack. Kitsunes can not use any additional abilities or magic while Illusionary Fortress is active. Edited by redfiver, Sun Oct 8, 2017 6:10 pm.
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| Leyanni[Adm] | Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 pm Post #39 |
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Level 2 - References charges, which are not explained Level 3 - Fox Fire is basically impossible to dodge as written and the "chance" to light people on fire is too vague. Level 4 - Doubles - Fine, I guess? I'm not particularly big on this ability, it doesn't need a "per tail" limit because you already have a 3 limit, which is less than the number of tails you have by this phase. And what can they actually do? It seems like they just run around and dodge as written. True Deception - Fine Level 5 - We don't need to specify within "three posts" because three posts is not actually a good unit of time and it cramps this ability. It also need a clarity rewrite, like what does "failing" the illusion mean? Does that mean getting caught by a trap? Do they loop in that case? You need to rewrite this ability and frankly most of this PrC for clarity because you've written on so many addendums that don't flow at this point. I'm going to be clear here though. This has been a really frustrating process for both sides of this review. CPrCs are a privilege and frankly a lot of staff get burned out on them. Please make this easier on the staff. |
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Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:13 pm Post #40 |
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Sorry if this has gotten hard and I will try my best to help make it easier, but as said before illusions are complicated things and there is no way to make them simple. Still I do request in the future if you are pointing out a problem, could you please not just write simple comments saying please rephrase this. IE the comment about the chance to light on fire in Fox Fire being too vague. I have no real idea how to fix that. I would do much better with a small example given of how you might like to see it phrased. Half the time I have had a hard time understanding what needed to be changed. Often I have simply not seen or do not read it as a problem in the same way you do and thus it makes it difficult to figure out how to fix things. Small examples of how you or another staff member might write them would probably help me understand what needs to be done better. I am not trying to create more work, but again as this has taken far too long I am trying to come up with ways to help make this process a bit smoother. I will put OOC comments in [] to make it clear I am commenting not writing part of the cPRC in places so I can respond to your feed back in the correct places. Still I will do my best and hopefully we are close to the end... I pray. Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) All abilities in this PRC can not be used with the "Sharpen the Knives" spell. Level 1 Kitsune Tails: A measurement of power both physically and magically for Kitsunes. You start with or grow three fox like tails. Each tail is two to three feet long, prehensile and can wield light weapon like a dagger like if you had it in your hand. You grow an additional tail at second and third level and two tails on fourth and fifth level for a total of nine. Level 2: Kitsune Illusionary Weapon Style: For each tail you posses you have one charge for this ability to a maximum of nine charges. You can use a charge to make one attack per battle that is overlayed with an illusionary double. The illusion will come at a different angle than the actual attack making the enemy to chose between which attack to block. You can use more than one charge for a single attack which increases the number of illusionary attacks by one per charge used. Level 3: [OOC: Not sure which of these two you liked better KMC or KMA. The first one is my own attempt to fix my this ability and the second was one suggested by Aey as an example. Both may not be perfect. If you like neither or have problems with it please write out examples of what you see as acceptable. I do not care if the ability gets changed that much anymore. I just want something approved here.] Kitsune Magic Conversion: All damaging spells are converted into illusions. However, you can no longer cast normal damaging spells. Illusion spells will cause no damage if the target see through the illusion. If a person fails to resist they take equivalent psychic damage equal to the original spell damage plus moderate extra damage from the Kitsune's mental assault. This ability can not stack with any other PRC or cPRC ability. This ability cannot be used on spells that do not cause damage. OR Kitsune Magic Augmentation:When the Kitsune casts a spell, they may choose to augment that spell. Spells augmented by Kitsune Magic Conversion may appear much nastier than they really are. If a target fails to recognize that the spell is merely an ordinary spell, then the target, if struck, takes moderately more damage from this spell. If a target sees through the illusionary nature of the attack, the target will take normal damage if struck. Additional damage incurred by Kitsune Magic Augmentaion is dealt in psionic damage, separately from the enhanced spells own elemental or non-elemental damage. This ability cannot be used on spells that do not cause damage. This ability can only be used once per three tails, maximum 3 times per topic. [OOC: Okay I changed the attack to increase marksman skill a bit, but no past master. Is this okay? As for the chance to be lit on fire I listed moderate. If this is too much it go to minor. Or if this needs more rephrasing please give an example of what is acceptable.] Fox Fire: A small ball of flame that is completely controllable by the Kitsune making them more difficult to dodge if the enemy is visible to the Kitsune. This means treat the character as one skill level higher in marksman for these ranged attacks. There is no skill level above master. When fox fire hits an enemy they take minor damage from the impact and they have a moderate chance to be lit on fire for two rounds. Each round they take minor damage regardless of how many fox fire balls hit them. The Kitsune Trickster can create one ball of fox fire per tail. A Kitsune can do this once per battle. Level 4: [OOC: Yes this ability is mostly a distraction. Make a person have to chose which one is real sort of thing. So yeah it breaks down into mirroring your actions and running around and dodging. I added a line to make it clearer that they try to mimic you. IF this needs to be rephrased that is fine.] Illusionary Doubles: Once per battle you can create on illusionary copy of your self per 3 tail, maximum 3. The illusions will move around on their own and act like you the best they can. If in close combat pretend to dodge, but can not cause damage and if hit become obvious as illusions. These illusions last for one post per three tails, maximum 3 posts. Once per battle you can swap positions with any of these illusionary doubles. True Deception: Your illusions are exceedingly tricky to detect. People with lower skill levels in, arcana and concentration skills than the Kitsune will have an moderately difficult time detecting your illusion. Detect magic or detect illusions can help, but it is still minorly harder than a normal illusion to resist. Level 5: [OOC: Okay this is a big example of needing an example to work off of. Ley you have told me to rewrite this, because it is unclear, but what is unclear. I literally stated what failure meant in this line "Those who fail find them selves facing an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind." All the secondary things are just putting limiters on the ability, so it doesn't get too powerful. It is describing the limits. I find these sort of things make things clearer, but clear they did not for you. Still I will try my best to clean it up, but don't expect it to be too great. I am not good at this phrasing thing... I honestly just don't get it some times.] Illusionary Fortress: This ability is used as the last defense of any Kitsune and is often used to hide or run away from an opponent. When activated anyone within 50 foot radius of the Kitsune are effected. It is harder to resist the closer you are to the Kitsune. Those who fail find them selves trapped in an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind. The illusion is always made with defense in mind something like a large maze or trap filled fortress or tower and must be described in detail by the Kitsune. Those who failed to resist the illusion start at an entrance or in a safe area and must proceed through or past this illusionary defense created to escape the illusion. Those under the effects of the illusion can take mental damage if they fall into any of the illusionary traps. Those who resisted or were outside the illusion's range can not attack those caught by the illusion without breaking the illusion. Kitsunes can not use any additional abilities or magic while Illusionary Fortress is active. [OOC: Insert time limit? I really could not think of what to put as a time limit. Examples to fix this one would be nice. Note I was mainly considering this as a delaying ability. Kitsune's would mostly use this to trap the enemy and then run away to recover.] Edited by redfiver, Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:20 pm.
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| Aeyliea | Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:23 am Post #41 |
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Custom PrC canceled. |
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6:42 AM Jul 13

