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| [x]Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Wed May 31, 2017 5:09 pm (1,716 Views) | |
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Sat Aug 5, 2017 6:52 pm Post #16 |
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Kitsune (Illusionary Trickster) Level 1 Kitsune Tails: A measurement of power both physically and magically for Kitsunes. You start with or grow three fox like tails. Each tail is prehensile and can wield light weapon like a dagger like if you had it in your hand. You grow an additional tail at second and third level and two tails on fourth and fifth level for a total of nine. Level 2: Fox Fire: A small ball of flame that is completely controllable by the Kitsune making them dificult to dodge if the enemy is visible to the Kitsune. When fox fire hits an enemy they take minor damge from the impact and they can be lit on fire for two rounds. Each round they take minor damage regardless of how many fox fire balls hit them. The Kitsune Trickster can create one ball of fox fire per two tail rounded up. Five balls at nine tails. Level 3: Kitsune Magic Conversion: All damaging spells are converted into illusions. However, you can no longer cast normal damaging spells. The spell retains any elemental type or other feature as it would not be a convincing illusion if the spell changed in any significant way. IE a successful illusionary fireball will be less effective against fire resistance just like the real spell. If the illusion is believed than the Kitsune has created an illusion so good that the enemy believes it strong enough that their body takes damage as if it hit with a real spell. However the illusionary spell does make base spells a bit more powerful by providing a minor damage boost to spells. This ability can not stack with any other PRC or cPRC ability. Kitsune Illusionary Weapon Style: For each tail you posses you can make one attack per battle that is overlayed with an illusionary double. The illusion will come at a different angle than the actual attack making the enemy to chose between which attack to block. You can use more than one charge for a single attack which increases the number of illusionary attacks by one per charge. Level 4: Illusionary Doubles: You can create on illusionary copy of your self per 2 tails rounded up. Maximum 5 doubles. Once per battle you can swap positions with any of these illusionary doubles. True Deception: Your illusions are exceedingly tricky to detect. People with lower skill levels in, arcana and concentration skills than the Kitsune will have an moderately difficult time detecting your illusion, even with the aide of detect magic/illusion. In addition once per day double the potency of illusions on one target to major difficulty for 3 posts Level 5: Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If they fail to do so they take major mental damage attack and can not differentiate between illusion and reality in the following post. |
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| Aeyliea | Sat Aug 5, 2017 9:59 pm Post #17 |
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The apex ability is still to strong. You either take a moderate wound or else subject yourself to potential instant death or any number of unspecified things that can fall into the category of illusion. Allowing for five posts or one post the ability to create illusions that cannot be discerned from reality opens the way for OP as all get out things. It might be better to try a different angle that allows this ability to have a quantitive limit to what it does, rather than bring open ended and ripe for abuse! |
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| Kaalia | Sat Aug 5, 2017 10:11 pm Post #18 |
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What would you say for apex giving them 2 posts to break out from outside source or take moderate mind damage then? I have a multitude of variations. trying to help red keep the same premise. take away the damage substitution, so that as long as someone outside the spell can snap you out you negate skill? and for difficulty telling illusion from reality; if they fail to break from ability they have moderate difficulty resisting future illusions for 1 post? Edited by Kaalia, Sat Aug 5, 2017 10:16 pm.
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Sat Aug 5, 2017 10:39 pm Post #19 |
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Sigh I guess I forgot to add the no instant death clause thing again. Seriously though that is a just a basic rule. We aren't ever allowed to do instant death things to players, so it won't happen. Still I will add that clause in. Also seriously I doubt too many things could be done in one post. It will do some strong damage for sure, but I know high end abilities that do far worse. I think you are being a bit paranoid on people abusing this. Still I will attempt to quantify it a bit more. I think the major mental damage may have been too much when I thought about it, so how about moderate physical or mental damage taken and the potential to deal extra damage next round, but no instant death and a statement to avoid unreasonable damage. I trust players to be reasonable. Level 5: Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If they fail to do so they take moderate mental damage attack and can not differentiate between illusion and reality in the following post. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. All illusions in the second round must give a chance to avoid further damage. OOC: This means no instant hits or creating unfair situations that make it too ridiculous. Please be reasonable and do not create supper spells or such. Edited by redfiver, Sat Aug 5, 2017 10:40 pm.
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| Aeyliea | Sat Aug 5, 2017 11:12 pm Post #20 |
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So either the affected target self inflicts or allows an attack to do moderate damage, or else they take moderate damage AND THEN are subject to potentially more moderate or even heavy damage? That's the real issue. You could get away with all manner of shenanigans, super spells, mountains dropping on heads, etc - if you just quantified the amount of damage the ability is capable of doing. No instant death or auto hits is fine, and required to clear review in any case, but there is a whole, whole lot between no damage and just below instant death. As it sits now, I would classify the potential damage as moderate+heavy, which is far too strong since the only way to escape the ability is self inflicted moderate damage. The ability basically reads as an auto hit, anyway, since you either take damage or take more damage. The only escape is to not be within the area of effect. Not a problem, there are many apex abilities that do that, but none that don't have some quantifiable damage output. Fix the open ended potential damage and this will be fine. |
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| Kaalia | Sat Aug 5, 2017 11:58 pm Post #21 |
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That's why I suggested the no damage needed to escape, just outside assistance, or take moderate, with easier but not guaranteed success on follow-up post. why not add severe mana drain to caster so no epic or high cost spells in that follow-up? maybe also add a evasion possibility like those who witness cast are immune? Edited by Kaalia, Sat Aug 5, 2017 11:59 pm.
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Sun Aug 6, 2017 12:15 am Post #22 |
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Sigh I just put in a clause that said you can't do things like drop mountains etc. People can be reasonable especially if it requests you to be. Honestly I can think of several abilities just as or more broken... especially in melee prcs that often do not specify precise damage. If you don't get it the OOC: comment is meant to be part of the full description. Though how about this? Just remove the mental damage. Thus they need to deal moderate damage to themselves or risk dealing with any illusions in the next round. Edit: We can add in any of Kaalia's modifiers if needed. Level 5: Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If they fail to do so they can not differentiate between illusion and reality in the following post. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. All illusions in the second round must give a chance to avoid further damage. OOC: This means no instant hits or creating unfair situations that make it too ridiculous. Please be reasonable and do not create supper spells or such. Edited by redfiver, Sun Aug 6, 2017 12:18 am.
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| Aeyliea | Sun Aug 6, 2017 12:44 am Post #23 |
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The problem want stacking moderate damage with more damage, it's more the undefined nature of what damage is possible from illusions in the latter part of the ability. There are abilities that are broke, especially in martial prc but the difference there to here is those are melee strikes that can be parried or avoided and however strong a sword strike is, it is still a sword strike and quantifiable. Illusory whatever's are not quantified here. You just need to quantify what kind of damage the latter part of the ability can do, rather than leaving it open ended. On the one hand, you could say it should do ridiculous damage. From the other side, someone affected could say it does little damage, too, because it is not defined at all. |
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| Kaalia | Sun Aug 6, 2017 12:49 am Post #24 |
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Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If they fail to do so they can not differentiate between illusion and reality in the following post. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. All illusions in the second round must give a chance to avoid further damage. OOC: This means no instant hits or creating unfair situations that make it too ridiculous. Please be reasonable and do not create supper spells or such. (substitute that only no damage abilities can be used in the follow-up phase? or that only illusion spells can be used?) |
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| Quinn | Sun Aug 6, 2017 12:58 am Post #25 |
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Illusion as Reality needs to be clarified heavily(right now, the ability's actual effects are so broad as to require a line that says "btw can't instant kill with this") and it also needs to cease being an automatic-hit. As of right now there is no way to evade damage, and that's a no-no. |
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Sun Aug 6, 2017 4:59 am Post #26 |
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Sigh I may have to give up. We are back to the bloody auto-hit argument which is not true for bloody **** sake. You want something specifically defined that is supposed to be highly flexible. Illusions are supposed to be flexible and have lots of choices, but they are harder to use and have a chance of doing zero damage. Restricting it too much defeats the entire purpose. If necessary I will scrap this final ability and come up with a boring as **** standard level five ability. Still I suppose I should define illusions again. I may have to put this at the top of the bloody PRC so we can stop this asinine amount of auto-hit complaints. No illusion in this PRC allows for auto-hit period. I will admit one version of Illusion as reality did, but now it is a choice between damage or just trying to deal with illusions. It is a choice and there are plenty of things that do damage in 25ft radius. There is no save listed most of the time. A fire burst of primal fist for example is just a burst of fire that unless you are at the edge or have cover you are not dodging in any reasonable way. I also have tried specifying at multiple points that illusions all must act as normal things would. I will try to describe this bellow and it will become a preface for the entire PRC. Illusion Limitations: Illusions must follow normal rules for reality. If they deviant too much from reality a person will ignore it no matter what even if a person should not be able to tell it is fake. IE nobody will believe you can levitate mountain and drop it on them. An illusion of a fireball must act like a fire ball. An illusionary warrior can be dodged like a normal warrior. You can not stack things into a death trap or something unreasonable. YOU CAN NOT AUTO HIT OR CAUSE INSTANT DEATH. YOU CAN NOT CREATE a deadly trap underneath then enemy or anything similar. You can set up a trap and if they fall into and take damage, but it would be as if they ran into a normal trap. They have chance to dodge or disarm or spot it. To be clear you could create an illusion of a bog that might slow down an enemy at most, but you can not create an illusion of acid all around your opponent. You could create a pool of acid between you, but that means they have a chance to move around it and such. On top of this there is always a chance to disbelieve the illusion with the exception of the final ability of this PRC. However, keep in mind that ability only bypasses the chance to disbelieve if the user doesn't take moderate damage. Even in the final ability must still give a chance for the opponent to avoid damage. It can not be an unlikely chance either. It has to be with in normal limits for any warrior or spell. You know what perhaps it is too much I should give up sigh... off to figure out a new fifth level ability as I doubt the above conditional will be approved. |
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| Leyanni[Adm] | Sun Aug 6, 2017 1:55 pm Post #27 |
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Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If they fail to do so they can not differentiate between illusion and reality in the following post. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. All illusions in the second round must give a chance to avoid further damage. OOC: This means no instant hits or creating unfair situations that make it too ridiculous. Please be reasonable and do not create supper spells or such. This line is 90% of your problem. I don't really care about the OOC notes because they'll be purged to bring it up to standards. As written, it is inferred that the -first- round abilities necessarily cause damage for the second round abilities to have a chance to not cause damage. Also, keep in mind this ability is simulated via "Sharpen the Knives" in the Mind's Eye shop so getting a different apex would be quite useful to the breadth of the Kitsune's arsenal. |
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Sun Aug 6, 2017 6:32 pm Post #28 |
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Umm... I think you miss understand the ability Ley... a lot. There is two stages. First post people can self inflict or be inflicted with a moderate wound and the ability ends. OR The person will not be able to discern the difference in illusions in the second round. Thus the comment you highlighted only applies to the second round because it is the only round in which illusions can become real to the opponent(s). If you wish to have this re-phrased then please tell me how you would phrase this to be more clear, but I thought it was fairly clear. Edit: Also sorry if I sounded snappish last post. Bad day yesterday... still your comment Ley really helped me understand this issue. Edit2: Hmm... I should try to make it clear anyways: Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If the opponent(s) take the moderate damage mentioned then this ability ends for that(those) opponent(s) and do not read the next paragraph. If they do not take the damage then nothing happens until the second post. In the second post the opponent(s) can no longer discern illusion from reality. All illusions in this second post must give a chance to avoid further damage, just like any other illusion. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. Edited by redfiver, Sun Aug 6, 2017 6:40 pm.
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| Snellopy[Adm] | Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 am Post #29 |
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Shop Ninja
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This is just about Illusion as Reality (sorry mate) as that seems to be the main stumbling block. The illusions mentioned in paragraph two, are these the ones already gallivanting about (in which case it's a lot like sharpen the knives like Ley said), or do you have to cast them, or does the opponent just make up random stuff as in their head's going bonkers? The latter wasn't really implied at all in your wording, but it might help to alleviate some of the problems with implied super-mega-ultra damage. |
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Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:19 pm Post #30 |
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Illusion as Reality: You create a mental world in a 25ft radius around yourself. Anyone in this zone has one post to attempt to break free by taking or self inflicting a moderate wound. If the opponent(s) take the moderate damage mentioned then this ability ends for that(those) opponent(s) and do not read the next paragraph. If they do not take the damage then nothing happens until the second post. In the second post the opponent(s) can no longer discern illusion from reality. Existing illusions or illusions you cast during this second post become real to the opponent for the duration of the second post. All illusions in this second post must give a chance to avoid further damage, just like any other illusion or ability. You can not create an illusion that would cause instant death with this ability. Alright made a modification above and I thought of an alternate capstone ability bellow that may work if the above is still not acceptable. Illusionary Fortress: This ability is used as the last defense of any Kitsune and is often used to hide or run away from an opponent. When activated anyone within 50 foot radius of the Kitsune are effected, but to different levels. Those 10 feet of the Kitsune has extreme difficulty resisting this illusory ability. Those with in 11-30 feet have major difficulty resisting. Those within 31-50 feet have moderate resisting difficulty. Those who fail find them selves facing an illusion crafted from the Kitsune mind. The illusion is always made with defense in mind something like a large maze or trap filled fortress or tower. Those under the illusion can take damage while in the illusion, like if they fall for a trap or such. The illusion can not be too big or complicated and must be something a character could finish within three posts. However those under the effect of the illusion must make it through or past this defense before they are released from the illusion. The people who fail the illusion must be placed in safe area like the start of the maze. While this illusion is active the Kitsune or anyone else can not attack those under the effect of the illusion without breaking it and giving the character a chance to avoid the new attack. Kitsunes can not use any additional abilities or magic while Illusionary Fortress is active. Edited by redfiver, Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:39 pm.
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