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Give Peace a Chance
Topic Started: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:08 am (127 Views)
Zolero Rossen
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In the Apostle of Serenity PrC, does the ability/flaw Pacifism include mind spells? They don't break the peace, as such, and with the exception of Sharpen the Blades they don't harm anyone physically, but I have to admit that it seems a bit sketchy to take an oath of pacifism and then go around telepathically crushing people's minds.

If it does, can I pretend it doesn't? It's pretty limiting not to be able to attack anyone unless you absolutely have to.
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Vander
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I had Apostle of Serenity once. I ended up disliking that pacifism so much that I sold all my levels and just bought a TON of spells. lol

In my opinion, "attack" would be any sort of action that would reasonably lead to violence or pain. If the mind spell is molding memories to add yourself into them, that's espionage and not an attack. If you mold the memories to make it so that they hate a present person so much they'd attack them on sight, that's malevolent. It's one of those vague but restrictive things. Do note that 'it becomes hard' isn't the same as 'it's impossible'. So yes, it's restrictive. But not always. You have wiggle room. I hope this helped at least in some manner.

As an aside, there's been discussion of reworking that particular PrC. There are other things we have higher on the priority list, but we recognize the undesirability of Apostle of Serenity means it needs work. Unfortunately, since PrCs are generally for the few instead of for the many, it's not uncommon for reworks to be initiated and pounded out as over-time or free time projects. Hell, you could even start up a rewrite if you wanted to -points to Suggested PrCs sub-forum in Suggestions forum-! Just keep in mind that it's TONS of work, both for the staff and for yourself, so it will take some time to get finished.

As an additional aside, if Apostle of Serenity isn't your thing, but you still wanna be a healer capable of things outside of the available stuff in the shops, cPrCs are getting really popular and are much easier to handle than full-blown PrC reworks! =]
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Zolero Rossen
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I was intending to get it primarily for the pacifism, actually. I'm intending to have Zo get possessed by a demon, and take the Hippocratic Oath to keep it in check. I might start a rework sometime soon--it'll give me something productive to do while I procrastinate posting.
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Vander
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Ahh, well, if you're bending it to work for you, go for it! Theoretically, even if the he's using Zolero's body and mana, the demon isn't in an Apostle of Serenity, so there'd be more leeway there (since the restriction is so vague). It could, to Zolero, be more than just a physical or mental thing, though, that sometimes (or usually) overcomes that metaphysical plane and stops the demon from doing things because of how far it's moved away from being a conscious decision to being a subconscious one.

I hope that makes sense. o.0;
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Zolero Rossen
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None at all :D . Moral of the story, though, is "I won't tell if you don't"?

I'm working on another version now, actually. It's going all right, although I can't decide whether to replace Emancipation or not. I don't like it, but that's a totally personal thing and there's no real flaw in it.
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Vander
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Moral of the story is "I can do this and not be breaking any rules, and even if it may seem dubious, it's not for no reason, as it's explained ICly in a developed and well-thought-out manner, and it works for me, so I shall. And most importantly, Vander said so, so I can blame it on him. Because I did ask." lol
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Leyanni[Adm]
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Erm, the Pacifism part of Apostle of Serenity functions no matter what. The demon wouldn't be exempt because pacifism is functioning on the body he'd use. *shrugs* It is a silly ability, but AoS is quite good in its overspecific niche and there's other PrCs that are deeply awful.
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Zolero Rossen
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What I actually want is to have Zolero discover that he's possessed/being possessed by the demon and subsequently take a few levels of AoS in order to prevent it from killing people outright. I'd like to have the demon then resort to messing around with people's minds to a)make them attack him first or b)just be an arse.

If AoS doesn't allow that, is there any way I can get it without making an entire PrC that's mostly identical to Apostles? I've started to design a possible rework, but I don't want to put in an except-for-Zolero clause.
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Vander
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Unless the demon acting against your wishes/morals/etc. is a requirement/drawback for something else, I don't think you need to purchase a justification for stopping/hindering it.
Edited by Vander, Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:16 pm.
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Zolero Rossen
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Nah, I just want a justification so that I can call it an overpowering evil incarnate without actually making it overpowering. It undermines the intimidation factor a bit if the incredibly strong demon can be held in check by a bard with no particular expertise.
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Vander
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Self-imposed RP limitations (like the overpowering demon, I.E. one you impose upon yourself for character building) can be countered with self-imposed RP counter-measures (like a spell cast on Zolero that makes him a pacifist to subdue the demon). As long as it confers no benefit that should come from the shops (e.g., you don't get super human strength from the demon without buying a Latent Bull's Strength Arcane Rune or something), it's in your control. Just like an accent or something. You should read about Oldman, AKA Krent to see some precedent on such a thing (he's the only one I can think of off the top of my head that had a curse that was occasionally lifted, had no free benefits from the curse, et cetera).
Edited by Vander, Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:04 pm.
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Leyanni[Adm]
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It is more interesting if someone uses their own willpower instead of puts on a different hat(or PrC) to hold something in check. Concentration, Diplomacy, etc.
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Zolero Rossen
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All right, thanks. I might still try to get AoS at some point, but it's good to know it's not actually necessary.
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