Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Giants Zone - NY Giants Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. In order to view and read ALL forums, you need to register.

IF YOU ARE HERE TO SELL SHIT YOU MAY AS WELL LEAVE NOW.

Please note: All registrations require email verification and manual admin approval once you have verified your email! Helps keep the spammers out. :)

To Register Click Here.

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Should have passed on Eli; New York Daily News
Topic Started: Nov 18 2006, 12:38 AM (143 Views)
Mr.Husker
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Should have passed on Eli

Deal stands as Big Blue boo-boo





Tom Coughlin was talking yesterday about using the overwhelmed Bob Whitfield at left tackle again on Monday night in Jacksonville, a desperate move. He was complaining about his passing game in Sunday night's game and he was still trying to figure out what to do about all the injuries and his paper-thin roster.

And every one of those problems might have been eliminated if Ernie Accorsi hadn't made the Eli Manning trade back in April 2004 that now appears to be a terrible deal for the Giants. It is looking like a long-term back-breaker, in what is supposed to be the Giants' breakthrough season, Accorsi's farewell tour. It was the biggest trade in Accorsi's career, and quite possibly his worst.


Sometimes it takes more than a few seasons to figure out these things, and maybe the final judgment call doesn't come for another five years. But right now, midway through Season 3 of the Manning era at the Meadowlands, this was not just a bad idea by Accorsi. It appears to be fatal.


Eli Manning is not a bad quarterback. He is good enough, perhaps, to win a title with the right cast. But he is not Ben Roethlisberger, already a champ, and now it turns out he may not be Philip Rivers, either. The complex trade has transformed the Chargers into an elite team and left the Giants a cut or two below.


Again, the Giants are solid enough. They have won five of their last six games and they probably will win their division when all is said and done. Accorsi deserves credit for that, too. But they could have been much better than this, much deeper, if the general manager hadn't followed his gut and worried so much that he was missing out on the next John Elway.


You have to remember that back in the spring of 2004, Accorsi was one of the few executives who believed Eli Manning was significantly better than both Roethlisberger and Rivers. Roethlisberger was big and tough. He was the guy Accorsi would have taken if the Giants didn't get Manning. Rivers had impressed everyone but Accorsi in private workouts and interviews. Most GMs and scouts grouped the trio of passers at around the same talent level.


Not Accorsi, who was utterly sold on Manning. He fell in love with the name, with the pedigree, and Accorsi gave up the deed to Xanadu to get him.


The Chargers ended up with Rivers. They also received the Giants' third-round pick in 2004, plus their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005.


Now you look at how those picks turned out, or how they might have gone, and it is clear the Giants gave up a tremendous amount of front-end talent for Manning, and that it hasn't been worth it yet.


The Chargers got three starters for Manning - Rivers, a real star this season, who has a 66.4% completion rate and a 100.4 quarterback rating (Manning's numbers are 59.4% and an 81 rating); Shawne Merriman, an outside linebacker with 8.5 sacks this season; and Nick Hardwick, a sturdy center.


San Diego didn't keep the fifth-round pick. St. Louis ended up with that choice, and took a bust, tight end Jerome Collins. But if the Giants had retained that pick, they might have selected Trent Cole, a starting defensive end in Philadelphia, who went two spots later.


And there you have the kind of depth and talent that might have compensated for injuries all over the field, on the offensive and defensive lines and at linebacker. You also have Rivers, who is a year younger than Manning and now looking like the player with the more accurate arm. Or you have Roethlisberger, also a year younger, who already has won a Super Bowl in Pittsburgh.


Instead, the Giants have a bunch of wrecked tendons, emergency filler material and a quarterback who is still trying to find his way on many weekends, who had three turnovers against the Bears.


"You've got to find ways to hit the open guy, be smart with the ball," Manning was saying again yesterday.


Here we are in Week 11, and you still have your choice around the Giants. You can jump on the bandwagon or board the second-guess express. It is Accorsi's last season, he says, and he will win or go down with that one famous quarterback trade.


Right now, the deal looks all wrong. Not because of Manning, but because of what the Giants might have been.

Originally published on November 17, 2006

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Right now, I'm still on the second-guess express. :dunno:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BlueHeart
Member Avatar
Gifted, But, Twisted Fearless Leader
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Yea, I read that yesterday. He bases his opinion on a whole lotta "what-ifs".

And he should be ashamed of himself for even bringing up injuries, and the retarded shit he implies.

I'm not particularly happy with Manning these days, but, we won alot more games last year than anyone expected us to with a rookie, and we currently have one of the better records in the league.

Considering we have the hardest schedule, the most injuries and the highest pressure region in the league, I'd say we're doing just fine.

Now if he could just stop throwing the ball to phantom players we'd be golden.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
BlueHeart
Nov 18 2006, 12:50 AM
Now if he could just stop throwing the ball to phantom players we'd be golden.

That's exactly what put me on the second-guess express. I'm not completely disgusted with him yet & calling for his head, but I'm most definitely less than thrilled. Than again, as Giants fans, we usually are. :P Had the trade not happened, we may be feeling the same way about Philip or Ben behind our makeshift line.

Yeah, the injuries suck, but they are mainly on defense, so can't give that all the blame for our offensive woes.

I still think we'll be okay.....I'm just hoping my nails grow quickly so I have something to bite every weekend, lest I be biting my fingers off..... :wacko:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BlueHeart
Member Avatar
Gifted, But, Twisted Fearless Leader
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Had the trade not happened, we may be feeling the same way about Philip or Ben behind our makeshift line.

Exactly.

And had we grabbed Ben, you know this guy, and a billion other people, would be saying we should've made the Manning Trade happen, at any cost, after Ben got into his motorcycle accident.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gene
Member Avatar
Down & Out
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Wow!

Was that from the Daily News or some high school newspaper? Who wrote that article, because Husker didn't print the name.

Would a good guess on my part be it was that midget bandwaggoner King of the Second Guessers Mike Lupica? No, perhaps not.....there was too much football mentioned and the 1st 15 paragraphs weren't dedicated to bashing GW Bush :rolleyes:

--Gee after all of 9 NFL starts he already has Phillip Rivers a better QB than Manning.

--Gee, they might have chosen Trent Cole? Are you sure about that? They might have chosen Trent Cole.........maybe the Giants might have drafted a LT instead.

You know because everyone knew that a year or two down the line Petitgout was going to break his leg and the LT pick would have been able to step right in and start over Whitfield. :rolleyes:

Jesus H Christ this isn't second guessing.....it's 3rd, 4th, and 5th guessing.

When the Giants brass was discussing the trade to begin with I can guarantee not one anti-Manning voice opined the the organization shouldn't pull the trigger because in 2006 Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Arrington, Short, Emmons, etc etc are going to get injured.

and BTW


DO THE FUCKING MATH!

Figure that Rivers and Manning cancel each other out do a fucking body count:

Merriman+ Hardwic,+ Phantom 5th Round Selection < Strahan+ Umenyiora+ Tuck+ Emmons+ Arrington+ Short+ Madison+ Petitgout+ Moss+Walker+Toomer+ whoever else is on the walking wounded list.

And IF the Giants selected Cole THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DRAFTED TUCK AND/OR KIWI........
so all that "might have been" BS is just that; BS. You have no idea who the Giants would have selected in '04, 05, or '06 with those picks.

Maybe with those picks they could have taken a LT.......no, maybe they should have taken a LB.......No no they could have taken another CB......no wait they should have taken a WR because Toomer was going down in 06.......Wait wait they should have definitely chosen a LB because Arrington, Short, and Emmons were going down.......No perhaps after all they should have taken Cole. This way after they drafted Tuck & Umenyiora they could have plugged Cole into the vacant spot at DE when Strahan, Tuck, and Osi got themselves injured in 06.......oy



Like others have said I'm not down on Manning. The kid is 17 & 9 as a starter the last season and a half for God's sake.

Watching the games you can see everything is in place. If he ever gets that little accuracy thingy down pat :whistle: he's going to be everything Accorsi said he would be.

Of course it goes without saying he has to get that little accuracy thingy down pat....... :rofl:








man, who pissed in Gene's cornflakes this morning??? :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr.Husker
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Filip Bondy?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cyberstorm
Member Avatar
Most Metal Giants fan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
this is what Tiki refers to a clueless journalist.
Too bad any of us can't send Acorsi back in time to do it over
you know why
becasue he STILL makes the trade,but throws in Hilliard( as he would have known we were getting rid of him in 05),never signs Barrett Green,Trades down 3 spots to Clevemstill takes Rivers and does the trade,we get an extra 2 and 4,take BoB Sanders and another OT,...............
you get the drift
we take McFadden instead of Webster in 2005,
We Take Marquis Colston in the 6th round

what a dicktoucher
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gene
Member Avatar
Down & Out
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well now that I've cooled off a bit here is the point that I was trying to make.

Anonymous is taking a lot for granted that if the Giants never make the trade and all things remained the same the organization isn't in the dire straits (injury wise) that it finds itself in today.......at least thats the vibes I'm getting for the entire gist of the article.......

Not only is that total nonsense, but flawed juvenile thinking that belongs in HS newspapers or places like Giants dot com and not on the sports pages of a major newspaper in a major metropolitan area.......

You can't take for granted that if the Giants never make the Manning deal all things remain the same. No one knows how that changes things.


Quote:
 
But if the Giants had retained that pick, they might have selected Trent Cole, a starting defensive end in Philadelphia, who went two spots later.


That's the line that sent me over the edge.

--How does he know Cole was even on the Giants radar?

--How can he speculate that Cole would have been there? Like I said if the Giants never make the deal it doesn't necessarily mean all things remain the same.

--How does drafting Cole help with our problems at LT, LB, WR, DB, etc?

--You know what? Let's even speculate that the Giants did draft Cole. HOW DOES THAT HELP THE GIANTS WITH THEIR PROBLEMS AT DE?????


Follow along:

If the team drafted Cole with Strahan & Umenyiora already on the roster do they grab Justin Tuck?

You know what? Maybe they do. Accorsi himself has said that you can never have too many pass rushers.

OK, let's jump forward to the Spring of '06.

With Strahan, Umenyiora, Cole, and Tuck on the roster do the Giants grab Kiwinuka?

No way no how. There is no way in the world anyone is going to convince me that that happens! It's impossible with a capital I.

Jump ahead to November of '06. Strahan, Osi, and Tuck are still injured and Kiwi isn't on the roster.

All that changes is that you have Cole and Legree as your ends instead of Kiwinuka and Legree.........

Common freakin' sense here people.........

No wonder he didn't sign his name to the article.........

Hey, no one more than I has taken shots at EA. Some warranted and some (gulp, dare I say it) I was in error, but this article is pure horse shit.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rick5
Dr. Strangeschmuck
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
As the years go by, I pay less and less attention to what the guys in the papers have to say. For example, they write articles based on coach and player quotes that you can read for yourself the day before on giants.com. It's old news by the time it's in the paper. It also seems like they are wrong much of the time (e.g., the Giants were supposed to be 6-10 this year, right?). No more expertise than well-informed fans on your average message board. I think at least 60% of the time they are just trying to write some random provocative shit to sell papers and make $$$ (the bottom line of course). They probably don't even believe their own BS much of the time.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gene
Member Avatar
Down & Out
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Absolutely well said Rick.............

Personally I wish I could lose the knee jerk habit of exploding the way I do at times against the media.......then again I'm not any sort of professional.......I'm nothing more than some loser who's spending far to much time on his computer and posting his thoughts on various message boards around cyber space.......


It may not be a rock solid excuse, but it's the only one I have at the moment......... :rofl: :gene:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rick5
Dr. Strangeschmuck
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Gene
Nov 18 2006, 03:31 PM
I'm nothing more than some loser who's spending far to much time on his computer and posting his thoughts on various message boards around cyber space.......


That makes two of us, pal.

:lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
BlueHeart
Nov 18 2006, 12:59 AM
Quote:
 
Had the trade not happened, we may be feeling the same way about Philip or Ben behind our makeshift line.

Exactly.

And had we grabbed Ben, you know this guy, and a billion other people, would be saying we should've made the Manning Trade happen, at any cost, after Ben got into his motorcycle accident.

But than again, had he been here, not with Pitt, he may not have gotten into the accident! Plus, we have a helmet law for ALL riders in NY/NJ regardless of experience! Than again, had he gotten into the accident, with these moron Jersey drivers around, he would have been dead. We can play the "what if" game til the end of time......
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
G1..
G1
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
What if we win the game in SanFran under Fassle ???
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I bet Ernie wrote it.

We win the SF game with Fassel, he still leaves when he does.... if all things remain the same like this guy thinks they would have. Fassel wasn't canned because of that game.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · NY Giants · Next Topic »
Add Reply