Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Giants Zone - NY Giants Forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. In order to view and read ALL forums, you need to register.

IF YOU ARE HERE TO SELL SHIT YOU MAY AS WELL LEAVE NOW.

Please note: All registrations require email verification and manual admin approval once you have verified your email! Helps keep the spammers out. :)

To Register Click Here.

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Eli new contract?
Topic Started: Jan 14 2009, 08:51 AM (503 Views)
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Anyhoo, I don't recall anyone saying the Eli sucks, merely that he is not quite deserving of the huge contract that is being speculated.

I might also argue that just because he won a SB doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't know how to do it. A lot of it had to do with luck. If you go by the thought process that he knows how to win a SB, shouldn't one conclude that he also knows how to win games? And if you know how to win games, why would you lose any?

Eli may have improved some since he was a rookie, but he hasn't improved significantly and he is still extremely inconsistent! I'm not saying he has to win every game, but I'd like him to show up for every game!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
27Hampton
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
KC - also, when considering the talent that has been built around him, many people (present company obviously included) hoped that we wouldn't be looking at a career rating of 76 (Philip Rivers career qb rating of 93 / Roethlisberger qb rating of 90) and talking about "getting better" at the end of year 5.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
27Hampton
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I'll give credit to Eli in that he is the type of player who will backload the contract for the greater good. I'd be very surprised if he didn't.


Maybe Giants' Manning should backload new contract

BY TOM ROCK | tom.rock@newsday.com
January 15, 2009

Eli Manning might have a decision to make: riches on the field or off.

The Giants quarterback is due to become a free agent at the end of the 2009 season and the team, understandably, would like to prevent him from hitting the open market. Although sources familiar with the situation said no deal is imminent, the team will likely try to get something done by the time they show up in Albany for training camp in July.

But if, as has been speculated, Manning becomes the highest- paid player in the NFL, would it handcuff the team's possible pursuit of a top-shelf wide receiver?

Manning might have to choose between big cash and a big target.

If Steve Spagnuolo leaves, find a capable replacement. Figure out how to keep Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward. Find a big target to replace Plaxico Burress (assuming his Giant career is over). Lock up Eli Manning with a long-term contract. Figure out how to best utilize Umenyiora, Tuck and Kiwanuka on defense.

If the season's final month showed anything, it's that the Giants need a game-breaking receiver. With Plaxico Burress' future with the team, the NFL and freedom up in the air, general manager Jerry Reese said he would like to have someone for Manning to rely on in tight spots.

"Everybody would like a big Spider-Man out there that you can throw balls up to and he can bring them down," Reese said.

Barring a surprising return by Burress, the Giants would have to look outside the organization for such a player. That will come with a hefty price tag, and will likely mean some financial sacrifice by Manning.

It's not unheard of for a quarterback to make contractual changes in order to bring in a receiver. Chad Pennington did it a few years back when the Jets reacquired Laveranues Coles. Tom Brady restructured so the Patriots could trade for Randy Moss.

This time, though, Manning is expecting to get a new deal. There's no restructuring, just structuring. If the Giants want to make a move on any of the high-priced receivers who will be free agents or available through a trade-and-sign, they'll need to convince Manning to have most of the gaudy final numbers his contract will contain spread out and backloaded. The tradeoff for Manning would be a few less bucks now, maybe a few more rings down the road.

Meanwhile, there is uncertainty in the NFL community on whether Manning is worth the biggest contract in the league, or even a modest nine-figure deal (by Super Bowl champion quarterback standards), especially after Sunday's performance against the Eagles.

"The Giants will have to take some time to forget that game and swallow hard before they start talking about that kind of money," one league insider said.

Money aside, the Giants do have options in acquiring a receiver. T.J. Houshmandzadeh is atop the free-agency list, but reports say he is likely be franchised by the Bengals. Bryant Johnson of the 49ers, a 6-3, 211-pounder, will be on the market, along with the Steelers' Nate Washington and the Bucs' Antonio Bryant.

On the trade front, Anquan Boldin wanted out of Arizona last year and could force his way out this offseason. Braylon Edwards also has voiced a desire to leave the Browns and does not appear to be an Eric Mangini-type player. The Giants were willing to give up a fourth-round pick in midseason for tight end Tony Gonzalez. With a new regime in Kansas City - and a new need for the Giants in the wake of Burress' situation - those talks could resurface.

The draft is also filling up with talented young receivers such as Michael Crabtree of Texas Tech, Jeremy Maclin of Missouri and Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina.

"Kevin Abrams is one of the best cap people in the league," a source said yesterday of the Giants' assistant general manager. "He has a plan."

There may need to be some concessions from Manning to put any of those plans into action.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
12C
Member Avatar
Let me tell you something, pendejo.
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Eli didn't win the Super Bowl. Rodney Harrison and Asante Samuel lost it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
KCGirl
Member Avatar
Shaper of Young Minds (aaahhhhhh!)
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Giantone
Jan 15 2009, 07:55 PM
I know that there is a click and you guys (Da Family) all stick together.....
Has nothing to do with a "click" or "sticking together"..... there have been MANY a time one, two, or ALL of us have battled with Hamp or each other. Has everything to do with people attacking over opinions that differ from their own.

Can we discuss the topic at hand & end this pissing contest now?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cyberstorm
Member Avatar
Most Metal Giants fan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Meh,its not my money.
All I'm going to add to this is that unless your name is Brady,P Manning and Brees,name me a qube who will prosper without his #1,we found out that Eli can't.
He is a to 10 qube IMO.
The thing is that Romo got 67 million,Eli has a ring and probably more consistant than him
I'm thinking this will be a 100 million deal,that gets extensively backloaded
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
10Giants
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
How about the talent Simms had around him on those teams compared to Eli? Do you think that should be considered at all when making such a comparison? Ya know, guys like Joe Morris (who was great a few years later) and Rob Carpenter compared to the franchise's best in Tiki Barber and then Brandon Jacobs. One of the game's premier rushing attacks versus one of the game's more average attacks for Simms?


A fair question. Fact is though, that Simms had about the same level of offensive talent around him from 1984-on. He also played for serveral years with one of the all time best defenses. Joe Morris had his 2nd best rushing season in 1985, and his best came 1 year later. The Giants offense was 5th in the league in total yards in 1985, 4th in rushing yards. The highest it ranked in total yards for the rest of Simms' career was 10th in 1986 and 1993. Only one other time, 1993 did the rushing attack rank higher in yards gained. Regardless of the talent around him, Simms' DID improve greatly, statistically, in the years following the similar point in their careers.

And since we are looking at the talent around them and bringing up Rivers and Rothlesberger, wouldn't it be fair to point out that both had better overall talent when they broke in? Ben was named starter of a Super Bowl ready team offensively and defensively. As I recall he played pretty poorly in his first Super Bowl. Rivers took over after his LT and others fully developed.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
27Hampton
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Yes, Simms did get better as time went on, but wouldn't you contribute at least some of that to his coming from Morehead State? Not exactly the highest level of competition, nor coaching. I think his learning curve was much more anticipated then Eli's coming out of college.

As far as talent that Rivers and Roethlisberger had around them, it certainly doesn't eclipse what Eli has had. Rivers has had Gates which was a huge help, no doubt about it. He also had LT who this year was "washed up LT" and he enjoyed his best year as a pro. And he has never had any WR's to speak of. He made Vincent Jackson, not visa versa. And a defense? No such thing in SD.

Steelers certainly had a championship defense. On offense, he had Hines Ward and some weapons but Eli had Burress, the organization's leading receiver in Toomer and the organizations best RB in Barber who was a great receiving weapon as well (in that LT mold)...we then transitioned to even a better rushing attack after Tiki's quiet retirement. I don't think there was a huge difference either way, but Ben did start out with a better overall team, no argument there. Heck, I was one who was saying on draft day that Ben would be a flop. I was wrong there. But I was right about Eli being an average QB, and still am. :p

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
10Giants
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Yes, Simms did get better as time went on, but wouldn't you contribute at least some of that to his coming from Morehead State?


There was a major jump in his performance from pre Super Bowl 21 and after. Look it up. The differences in td-int ratio, QB rating and even Comp % are easy to see. Similarly Eli's post Super Bowl performance clearly shows a similar jump. Time will tell if this continues, as it did with Simms.

Quote:
 
On offense, he had Hines Ward and some weapons but Eli had Burress, the organization's leading receiver in Toomer and the organizations best RB in Barber who was a great receiving weapon as well (in that LT mold).


Yeah a Burress that the Steelers didn't want, and before that a Hilliard who was past his prime. Toomer, first because of injury and later age, was not the Toomer of 1999-2003. The Steelers had a running attack that allowed them the luxury of NOT having Ben throw it much more than 20 times a game.

Quote:
 
But I was right about Eli being an average QB, and still am.


Oh I know you think so, but you aren't. Average QB's don't have playoff runs like last year and then follow it up with a 4-1 record against the eventual final four and a 7-2 record in an unprecedented string of games against teams with winning records, while setting personal highs for Comp. %; QB rating, and TD-Int ratio.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
27Hampton
Member Avatar
Hall of Famer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Oh I know you think so, but you aren't. Average QB's don't have playoff runs like last year and then follow it up with a 4-1 record against the eventual final four and a 7-2 record in an unprecedented string of games against teams with winning records, while setting personal highs for Comp. %; QB rating, and TD-Int ratio.

If you think that 7-2 record had more to do with Eli than it did our running game, you're lost.

Setting "personal highs" shows progress this year, but you're not exactly talking about breaking the gold standard now are you?

You're talking about stellar play to the tune of yearly QB ratings - 55, 76, 77 and 74 - along with corresponding completion %'s of 48%, 53%, 58% and 56%. He certainly showed progress. From shitty to average.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · NY Giants · Next Topic »
Add Reply